Originally Posted by mjfloyd1' post='982088' date='Aug 19 2009, 09:36 AM

I suspect that the grants will be sustainable as many are from Bill Cook of Cook Inc - they make urology stents and coronary and peripheral vascular stents. He has other projects in Indiana - he just spent $500 Million to restore two hotels in French Lick and West Baden Indiana. Perhaps they wouldn't be in other states/areas.

Originally Posted by pjinca' post='982070' date='Aug 19 2009, 11:16 AM

To answer your first question: I England you don't have to be a citizen, if you are injured or sick and need treatment they still treat you free of charge and prescriptions are still $10 (or pounds, not sure).

What your local community is doing is commendable, but it is the first step - grants are not sustainable. We need a fundamental change in the access and ability of those less fortunate to get healthcare when needed.

Here, people are not denied health procedures like dialysis - this is true, but you will get smacked with a huge bill. Which is why most who need treatment don't get it until it is too late to do anything for them.

The key part MUST be preventative care, if people are encouraged to maintain themselves healthier and get treatment earlier then we will all pay less for healthcare. It is much cheaper to treat cancer early, for instance, than the "end of life" care we hear so much about.

Originally Posted by mjfloyd1' post='982156' date='Aug 19 2009, 10:59 AM

In earlier posts, you state that you are a smoker and then you argue for preventative care. You have also posted that you have gunshot wounds????? WASSUP?????

Originally Posted by pjinca' post='982161' date='Aug 19 2009, 01:03 PM

I am a veteran and saw some action in Somalia and elsewhere as a member of an Air Force Parascue team (hence the name PJ). Yes, I am a smoker, have been for 20 years. Every doc I see tells me to quit, but I ignore them - figure something is gonna kill me right? Anyway, I also try to eat healthy, I workout 6 days a week, don't drink excessively and have no family history of any major illness.

Originally Posted by mjfloyd1' post='982164' date='Aug 19 2009, 11:07 AM

Thanks for your service. I also apologize as that was a question that I should really have asked in a PM.

Originally Posted by pjinca' post='982168' date='Aug 19 2009, 01:09 PM

No worries, and you don't have to thank me, I enlisted and served willingly.

Originally Posted by mjfloyd1' post='982176' date='Aug 19 2009, 11:12 AM

Another problem with the current system is that with the medicare "competitors" like Humana Gold, etc - they are rebadged medicare products and medicare pays a % to the insurance provider (Humana Gold) so that the patient ends up with medicare coverage, but it costs the taxpayers MORE. I'm speaking of basic medicare coverage, not the secondary insurances that pay the copays, etc that medicare doesn't pay.

Originally Posted by Lancaster' post='981867' date='Aug 19 2009, 05:14 AM

It is interesting to watch the arguments here about Health Care (and really fascinating to see the "liberty" card being played again!).

However, you don't know diddly about the UK Healthcare system, so please stick to what you know. Here in the UK we have been seeing a pile of crap from "Debaters" in the US using the NHS to bash the principle of government run healthcare. It's actually been quite sickening and disappointing to see and I don't think the vast majority of American citizens are dumb enough to swallow it.

Here is how it actually works:

Everyone who is earning money pays some contribution to the cost of the NHS. A large number of us still choose to pay for private health insurance because we may want an operation done more quickly, or have more choice about where we go for treatment.

We still pay into the NHS scheme because we care enough about each other to do it. We want to know that people less fortunate than ourselves can get a reasonable level of treatment when they need it. We also have somewhere to go if the insurance companies get jiggy with us (pre-existing conditions etc).

You can, if you really try, twist all this into some sort of liberty issue. But's here the bottom line.

The UK chose this system as a country. You can choose to have something similar or not, depending on how most of you vote.

The NHS is very far from perfect but most people who use it are generally impressed.

Do people over the age of 65 get dialysis free at the point of use here? Or do you have to have medical insurance?

At the end of the day, the decision you reach collectively in the USA will not be about liberty or freedom. Democracy will decide the issue. After all, everyone is free to vote and all votes are counted equally. Aren't they?

Originally Posted by mjfloyd1' post='982062' date='Aug 19 2009, 05:08 PM

Sorry about the bad info.

How does the NHS deal with non British citizens? Has the British system always been a two tier system or is this relatively new?

Here people regardless of age are not refused treatment (dialysis), even non-US citizens. The hospital or the dialysis clinic bills but ultimately ends up writing it off. The cost is then seen by increased costs mainly for those with private insurance, but also for self pay patients although the payments can be negotiated.
There is a very large amount of write offs for treatments, surgeries, physician's bills, etc.

It does seem that there is a access problem for those with no insurance - I know that insurance is the first question asked when you try to get an appointment with a primary care doctor. Locally, the hospital has set up a clinic for the indigent and those who can't afford insurance and the clinic has a sliding scale of fees based on income. It is, however, limited to a two or three county area. The state has set up a "Healthy Indiana Plan" (HIP) and my local hospital has even gone so far as to pay the premiums for patients to get them enrolled. I don't know if similar plans could be used elsewhere, but it seems that local support is the key here - some local companies have given grants for the clinic to hire a new nurse practitioner and others have a building which they lease very cheaply to the clinic to use.