DRANGED

Medical care was cheaper when people paid for their medical care out of their own pockets...before insurance, lobbyists, gov't were involved. Take these factors out of the equation and costs go down. Gov't has never driven down the cost or done anything cheaper than the private sector. Gov't is not the answer.


BTW, I find it ironic that you have a quote from Thomas Jefferson in your sig.

rogerj

Maybe you should read him a little more.

DRANGED

I am not the one confused as to how Jefferson felt about gov't, Tiger.

Do you have any constructive ideas to add to this thread or is this just a personal attack?

pjinca

+1, now out of all the arguments you have made THIS has been the one that I can agree with the most. I doubt, however, that a "Healthcare savings account" could sustain anything other than routine checkups without huge government support and subsidies.

DRANGED

70% of medical care is consumed by seniors. If one was allowed to place $$ into a HSA from birth this $$$ would multiply and be available to seniors at a time when they need it most. The young often go without health care, not because it is unavailable to them, but rather because they weigh the risk vs. cost and roll the dice.

If one was sick at a young age, parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents, friends would be able to kick in $$$ out of their HSA's to help.

swajames

People are already allowed to do the above if you analogize an HSA with personal savings and with retirement and pension savings. As it stands, most people have woefully little of either. And that's really the heart of the issue. People, and this cuts through the entire socio-economic spectrum, simply cannot and do not save. To the extent your HSA is optional, it wouldn't change these behaviors. People would still roll the dice. And this, essentially, is why some tough love is needed.

I also think you're grossly underestimating the cost of healthcare. I base that on the cavalier posts about what you say you'd do, including mortgaging your house, to take care of you and your family. Quite simply, the cost of many procedures and many courses of treatment is vastly higher than the median value of single family homes in Minnesota. If a catastrophic event were to happen, you almost certainly can't afford to cash the checks your posts are writing, John. Very, very few of us could.

I accept that the cost today is artificially higher than it should be (and that is one of the reasons why I advocate universal care, albeit with the option to supplement or replace the universal care with a private option) and we all know the reasons for that. Either way, a serious illness in the family could quite probably drive a family into bankruptcy.

pjinca

The problem comes when emergencies and extended hospital stays sap the savings - then who covers it?

the only chink in the armor of your plan is the idea that costs would go down if we paid out of our own pocket. That's like saying if only every American drove a hybrid we'd see gas for 50 cents a gallon again. The days of the "country doc" who'd take hens for payment are long gone today. They drive Porsches now and they wan't take livestock anymore.

rogerj

The initial debate is about access. Nobody is is discussing this. WE ARE ALL PAYING FOR THE LACK OF ACCESS. DOES ANYBODY UNDERSTAND THIS? Nope. The next issue is cost. I have worked in healthcare for the last 12 years and been hospitalized myself for 1 week with full insurance. Anyone who thinks they can put put money away to pay for future medical expenses is smokin. Here is the funny part. Let's say you break your leg and need surgery. The surgeon and hospital charge $35,000. Medicare negotiates a rate for $20,000 paid in full. If you pay private, you pay the full $35,000.00 This is fact. Resolve that mister private insurance man. How does more $ outta pocket save more $?

DRANGED

One could have a high deductible catastrophic insurance policy for extended stays and emergencies. Rates would be low because the likelihood of such an event is low.

The problem is the general population has been accustomed to having everything covered 100% and having little to no copay. They want everything for free. This is like having car insurance to pay for oil changes and car washes. They all want to drive a BMW but pay for a Yugo.

As far as Dr's...You would be surprised. Have you ever spoke to a Dr. regarding paying them directly? Most are more than willing to take cash at a discounted rate.

pjinca

We have some here on the forum, so the question goes out to the docs on the forum:

Anyone wants some hens for an emergency appendectomy? A pig for some chemo? How about a new hip for a chihuahua?