New F10 revealed: back to the "same jelly bean different size&quo
11-29-2009, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='1061654' date='Nov 24 2009, 09:24 AM
V, it is indeed true that David Arcangeli was the design lead for the E60, but he was working under Bangle's instruction and direction. Not to take away from David's immense work, but Bangle is correctly associated with the design as it was effectively his vision that David was realizing. Given the lead time for car production, this F10 design will have been signed-off a while back so this is also one that was done under Bangle's watch. In fact, my own view is that BMW's return to design conservatism (which I believe is diametrically opposed to Bangle's overall philosophy) is really what led Bangle to part from BMW. I like the F10 design, but where the E60 was revolutionary the F10 is evolutionary, and it's a very conservative evolution at that. I love the new technology that's been packaged into the F10, but I can't help thinking BMW has missed an opportunity to reinvent the sector once again. The E60 proved beyond doubt that BMW buyers will embrace a different design, and I think the segment is poorer for the F10 being arguably a little bland and conformist following as it does on the heels of the car that broke the mold.
As I said in another post, with the F10, BMW now essentially offers one sausage in three different lengths in the 3,5 and 7 series. Not that this is a bad thing, but the 5 for me should be the segment rule breaker.
As I said in another post, with the F10, BMW now essentially offers one sausage in three different lengths in the 3,5 and 7 series. Not that this is a bad thing, but the 5 for me should be the segment rule breaker.
Personally, I feel that what I like most about Bangle's key design is flame surfacing - the concave and convexes that create light and shadow on a normally flat panel of the car body. However, this philosophy was not always well executed. The old Z4 has too many of it, making the small car look like it was trying too much. The E65 7 actually looks a bit boring and stodgy, without much of the surface texture (look at the slab side), has a strange looking butt and taillights, as well as teary eyed headlights. To me, the current 3 series probably best show case this design philosophy, which is now clearly shown in the new 7 and 5 series.
E60 is an interesting design - not much flame surfacing. To me, when sitting it next to the E39 and F10, E60 is just very different - the front and headlights lean and stretch back, a big departure from the BMW traditional forward leaning shark look, which BMW is getting back to now, partly due to the pedestrian safety requirement. The shark look is really the best seen by the new Z4 and the Vision Concept.
Another key design attribute of E60 is smooth flowing curvy lines, from the shape of the headlights to the shape of the taillight to the shape of the kidney grille. As a result, the car looks very smooth, which actually leans towards the design language of the E-class then (and maybe Italian or Japanese designs). As a result, the car does not look very tout or tight - the side profile can be a bit fat from the rear quarter view.
When E60 came out, it was very different from the then 7 and 3 series and any other BMW, and thus I think everyone is surprised. The design is not outrageous per se, but because it is different, it received some criticism from the press. Internet forums in general sort of copy that and some even call E60 with a Bangle butt, which was really for the 7.
Looking at the F10, it's actually quite athletic, with sharp shapes, powerful lines - not as smooth as the E60, but seems to convey more force. Because it uses lots of the same design cues from the current 7 and 3, people call it conservative - it's more of having a family look, but it's by no means a conservative car design. The E class is a conservative design - very square.
If the F10 had come out in 2004, people would have been shocked as well. But with so many radical changes already taking place, starting with the E65 7, Z4, E60, X3, 6 series, then the more mainstream E90 and F01, in comparison it seems a tame design change. I like the F10 from the side and rear views, so so with the front.
I think BMW management probably feels that they've made enough headlines with their designs, and now that they've made significant gains in market share and sales, it's time to slow down things a bit.
11-29-2009, 09:55 AM
#52
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I just read "2015" and "LCI" and my heart dropped thinking it would be that long before we saw an LCI for this car. IMO, I think the LCIs always tend too look better, but now I have to live with the looks of the car now for about 6 years. 
The car looks all right. It could have been worse, like when we thought it would look just like the 5 GT. Maybe the looks will grow on me, and I hope they show the M5/Sport kits on the F10, since they tend to make a world of a difference in the cars.
Any idea when the M5 comes out?
The car looks all right. It could have been worse, like when we thought it would look just like the 5 GT. Maybe the looks will grow on me, and I hope they show the M5/Sport kits on the F10, since they tend to make a world of a difference in the cars.
Any idea when the M5 comes out?
11-29-2009, 12:18 PM
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If they add the M-Kit that the attached pictures has to the F10, I would think it would look pretty aggressive and nice. But of course they have to add space for the fog lights to this package! 
12-01-2009, 04:48 PM
#54
Originally Posted by the_stranger' post='1061082' date='Nov 23 2009, 07:46 PM
I am with you on this man. I'm sure it'll be a great car to drive but it is a disappointment when it comes to the styling. I feel that it lost the sportiness that e60 had. I have been waiting eagerly for the unveiling and I have to say that I am disappointed.
12-03-2009, 10:27 PM
#56
Originally Posted by pharding' post='1061298' date='Nov 24 2009, 12:02 AM
I could not agree more with the original poster. The F10 is soooooooooooo BORING. It looks like a Japanese or Korean knock-off of a BMW. I can't believe that it looks like a 3 Series. The 3 Series was Uber Conservative. It looks like a bigger version of the 3 Series from 6 years ago. Now they just copied that design. BMW is clearly in decline once again and Audi is ascending. I will never buy or lease the F10 now. It is such a timid design. BMW did fantastic when Chris Bangle was Design Director. It was a joy to see each new BMW creation. They were all innovative, creative and fresh. BMW has decided that bland is best. Why would I want I bland, gutless, boring design in an expensive BMW? Evidently this is what you get when a bunch of conservative, old men on the board of directors micromanage the BMW design effort. They have designed a car for the nursing home crowd. The BMW Welt is such a bold modern building. It makes no sense to take delivery of the frumpy new F10 in that hip, innovative building. How can the same company be responsible for both? BMW must have hired elderly car designers laid off from MB and turned them loose on the F10.
There are many fine wonderful, innovative cars in the marketplace. Unfortunately the F10 is not one. It is bye BMW for me when my lease is up in 2010. I care too much about design to be seen in a bland, expensive BMW that looks like it just got off the boat from Korea.
There are many fine wonderful, innovative cars in the marketplace. Unfortunately the F10 is not one. It is bye BMW for me when my lease is up in 2010. I care too much about design to be seen in a bland, expensive BMW that looks like it just got off the boat from Korea.
I couldn't agree with you more. When I'm done with my E60, I'm done with BMW until the next gen comes out. I don't even think LCI can save the 5.
12-03-2009, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by neoe60' post='1067630' date='Dec 4 2009, 01:27 AM
Wow.
I couldn't agree with you more. When I'm done with my E60, I'm done with BMW until the next gen comes out. I don't even think LCI can save the 5.
I couldn't agree with you more. When I'm done with my E60, I'm done with BMW until the next gen comes out. I don't even think LCI can save the 5.
12-04-2009, 12:56 AM
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I think the e39 was too conservative and the e60 was too evolutionary. They probably tried to meet both ends with the F10 to widen their target audience. In doing this they will fail to completely to satisfy any of the previous two "opposing" markets.
Bad tactic if you ask me, with so much good competition going on , you have to have something that differentiates itself from anything else on a certain level (either be design, quality, handling etc). With all other makes catching up on the handling superiority of BMW - the "bavarians" just threw themselves on a much larger barrel but with too many fish in it..
Bad tactic if you ask me, with so much good competition going on , you have to have something that differentiates itself from anything else on a certain level (either be design, quality, handling etc). With all other makes catching up on the handling superiority of BMW - the "bavarians" just threw themselves on a much larger barrel but with too many fish in it..
12-04-2009, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by TMQ' post='1064501' date='Nov 29 2009, 01:40 PM
This is well said. Both E60 are F10 were designed under Bangle's direction. The direction of the F10 design is probably more influenced by BMW's top management, who may feel that the Bangle design language may be alienating some customers who like more MB's type of more conservative designs.
Personally, I feel that what I like most about Bangle's key design is flame surfacing - the concave and convexes that create light and shadow on a normally flat panel of the car body. However, this philosophy was not always well executed. The old Z4 has too many of it, making the small car look like it was trying too much. The E65 7 actually looks a bit boring and stodgy, without much of the surface texture (look at the slab side), has a strange looking butt and taillights, as well as teary eyed headlights. To me, the current 3 series probably best show case this design philosophy, which is now clearly shown in the new 7 and 5 series.
E60 is an interesting design - not much flame surfacing. To me, when sitting it next to the E39 and F10, E60 is just very different - the front and headlights lean and stretch back, a big departure from the BMW traditional forward leaning shark look, which BMW is getting back to now, partly due to the pedestrian safety requirement. The shark look is really the best seen by the new Z4 and the Vision Concept.
Another key design attribute of E60 is smooth flowing curvy lines, from the shape of the headlights to the shape of the taillight to the shape of the kidney grille. As a result, the car looks very smooth, which actually leans towards the design language of the E-class then (and maybe Italian or Japanese designs). As a result, the car does not look very tout or tight - the side profile can be a bit fat from the rear quarter view.
When E60 came out, it was very different from the then 7 and 3 series and any other BMW, and thus I think everyone is surprised. The design is not outrageous per se, but because it is different, it received some criticism from the press. Internet forums in general sort of copy that and some even call E60 with a Bangle butt, which was really for the 7.
Looking at the F10, it's actually quite athletic, with sharp shapes, powerful lines - not as smooth as the E60, but seems to convey more force. Because it uses lots of the same design cues from the current 7 and 3, people call it conservative - it's more of having a family look, but it's by no means a conservative car design. The E class is a conservative design - very square.
If the F10 had come out in 2004, people would have been shocked as well. But with so many radical changes already taking place, starting with the E65 7, Z4, E60, X3, 6 series, then the more mainstream E90 and F01, in comparison it seems a tame design change. I like the F10 from the side and rear views, so so with the front.
I think BMW management probably feels that they've made enough headlines with their designs, and now that they've made significant gains in market share and sales, it's time to slow down things a bit.
Personally, I feel that what I like most about Bangle's key design is flame surfacing - the concave and convexes that create light and shadow on a normally flat panel of the car body. However, this philosophy was not always well executed. The old Z4 has too many of it, making the small car look like it was trying too much. The E65 7 actually looks a bit boring and stodgy, without much of the surface texture (look at the slab side), has a strange looking butt and taillights, as well as teary eyed headlights. To me, the current 3 series probably best show case this design philosophy, which is now clearly shown in the new 7 and 5 series.
E60 is an interesting design - not much flame surfacing. To me, when sitting it next to the E39 and F10, E60 is just very different - the front and headlights lean and stretch back, a big departure from the BMW traditional forward leaning shark look, which BMW is getting back to now, partly due to the pedestrian safety requirement. The shark look is really the best seen by the new Z4 and the Vision Concept.
Another key design attribute of E60 is smooth flowing curvy lines, from the shape of the headlights to the shape of the taillight to the shape of the kidney grille. As a result, the car looks very smooth, which actually leans towards the design language of the E-class then (and maybe Italian or Japanese designs). As a result, the car does not look very tout or tight - the side profile can be a bit fat from the rear quarter view.
When E60 came out, it was very different from the then 7 and 3 series and any other BMW, and thus I think everyone is surprised. The design is not outrageous per se, but because it is different, it received some criticism from the press. Internet forums in general sort of copy that and some even call E60 with a Bangle butt, which was really for the 7.
Looking at the F10, it's actually quite athletic, with sharp shapes, powerful lines - not as smooth as the E60, but seems to convey more force. Because it uses lots of the same design cues from the current 7 and 3, people call it conservative - it's more of having a family look, but it's by no means a conservative car design. The E class is a conservative design - very square.
If the F10 had come out in 2004, people would have been shocked as well. But with so many radical changes already taking place, starting with the E65 7, Z4, E60, X3, 6 series, then the more mainstream E90 and F01, in comparison it seems a tame design change. I like the F10 from the side and rear views, so so with the front.
I think BMW management probably feels that they've made enough headlines with their designs, and now that they've made significant gains in market share and sales, it's time to slow down things a bit.
12-04-2009, 09:43 AM
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All this talk of the F10 being conservative and changing their E60's for Audi etc.
You know you will end-up buying the F10 in the long run.
Once it has nice paint, better wheels and the m sport kit on it, it iwll look like it's doing 100mph standing still. And the technology in the car will be leaps ahead of the competition.
In the end BMW doesn't car if you like the F10 or not because for everyone of 'you' who moves to Audi, there will be another buyer attraced to the new BMW styling. And from what I can see it is mostly liked.
What you are expressing is not the start of a revolution, and a large mass of poeple turning away from the F10, but a few hard core E60 styling fans lamenting after something well past its sell-by date.
This is the new BMW design direction and if you don't like it then you are probably better off with another manufacturer, where you will pretty quickly realise how poortly these car are manufactured and designed compared to BMW.
You know you will end-up buying the F10 in the long run.
Once it has nice paint, better wheels and the m sport kit on it, it iwll look like it's doing 100mph standing still. And the technology in the car will be leaps ahead of the competition.
In the end BMW doesn't car if you like the F10 or not because for everyone of 'you' who moves to Audi, there will be another buyer attraced to the new BMW styling. And from what I can see it is mostly liked.
What you are expressing is not the start of a revolution, and a large mass of poeple turning away from the F10, but a few hard core E60 styling fans lamenting after something well past its sell-by date.
This is the new BMW design direction and if you don't like it then you are probably better off with another manufacturer, where you will pretty quickly realise how poortly these car are manufactured and designed compared to BMW.