das

Well, I fully support our members sharing their experiences with different products, vendors, and so on.

It sounds like this was a frustrating experience, and perhaps expectations weren't set properly, but as far as I can tell, isn't characteristic of interactions with Umnitza.

Let's try to keep the thread civil, however. Thanks.

choi000

I totally agree with you Das. I'd have to say I have been cordial but you know I gotta say something back to SunnyD... I find it interesting and curious to say, how this thread just came back to life after it's been dead for a while now and that the only posts that SunnyD contributed to thus far have all been on this thread. And furthermore, it seems a bit odd that SunnyD just signed up on this forum yesterday (12/7/05) right after Umnitza responded back to this post which was as I said before, been dead for a while. Does something smell fishy here? Maybe it's SunnyD.

ipse dixit

I totally agree with you Das. I'd have to say I have been cordial but you know I gotta say something back to SunnyD... I find it interesting and curious to say, how this thread just came back to life after it's been dead for a while now and that the only posts that SunnyD contributed to thus far have all been on this thread. And furthermore, it seems a bit odd that SunnyD just signed up on this forum yesterday (12/7/05) right after Umnitza responded back to this post which was as I said before, been dead for a while. Does something smell fishy here? Maybe it's SunnyD.
[/quote]

I'm not taking sides here, but I think a distinction should be made clear.

Did umnitza sell a defective product? Or merely a product that the buyer (i.e. choi000) could not install on the car?

If the former (i.e. defective product), then I believe choi000 is 100% entitled to a full refund and has every right to be upset. As to shipping costs, that's really dependent on what umnitza's return policy was when the product was first purchased, and whether it was disclosed to choi000 at the time of purchase.

If the latter (i.e. choi000 could not find someone suitable to install the angel eyes even though the angel eyes presumably work fine when installed), then umnitza should not be held responsible in this instance. umnitza sells these products, it is not an installer. It's like if a person buys a set of H&R Springs but lives in Timbucktoo, where a qualified mechanic is as plentiful as a glacier in the Mojave Desert. In that case, it isn't the fault of H&R that the springs cannot be installed (assuming again that the springs are free of defect).

Sure, umnitza may have represented to choi000 that there was an installer qualified and prepared to do the work, but was that really part of the bargain? Put another way, would choi000 have bought the angel eyes if umnitza said he did not personally know of any installers in SoCal? Maybe, maybe not ... dunno.

In this case it just seems like umnitza did not sell a defective product and the problem (if it is in fact a problem) is that choi000 has yet to find someone who can install the angel eyes.

Again, I am not defending anyone in this instance and have known people who have had bad experiences with umnitza, but to me it just seems like the problem lies in finding a qualified installer -- not with the product itself.

das

I think the situation here is that the product isn't necessarily defective (and probably isn't), it's that Choi probably wouldn't have bought them at all if he wasn't led to believe there was a person who could install them. A lot of Umnitza's business probably depends on a capable installer being available to install the part(s). I'll admit I haven't scoured every detail in the previous posts here, but it sounds like it was expected that someone would be able to do this install. However, in the case of a particular part on a particular vehicle, it sounds like sometimes it could be the case no local installer is available. I realize that this upset Choi, especially since it appears that it was presented that the installation would be no problem, and regardless of what did or didn't happen in the ensuing time as far as contacting, it's probably the case that if this one installer wasn't going to be able to do it, no one in his area would be able to. At that point, I probably would have just gotten my money back and eaten the return shipping. Who knows, perhaps Umnitza would have covered the return shipping too. But whatever happened, I'd just chalk it up to experience. I really don't believe Umnitza was out to screw anyone over here, but perhaps Umnitza should have been clearer about that fact that you're buying the part, not the installation (if that's the case - does Umnitza make any guarantee or claim that it WILL be installed?). So I understand Choi's position: he bought something he wanted, and his expectation was that it would be installed. When that couldn't happen, he was upset. But all Umnitza can really do is take it back. If someone isn't in a geographic location where an appropriate installer is available, there's not much they can do. Obviously, if it happens enough, they'll probably figure, "gee, we won't sell any E60 angel eyes in City X because people keep ordering them and we have to keep taking them back because they can't get them installed." Not to diminish anyone's poor experience, and there probably was some miscommunication here on both sides, but it doesn't strike me that Umnitza would basically just want to tell a customer to F off. All they can do is take back the part and apologize that it didn't work out...and Umnitza will probably think twice before telling another E60 customer in Choi's area that the installer can do angel eyes on E60. Though they probably had no reason to believe their installer *wouldn't* be able to do it, perhaps it also wouldn't hurt if more details about specific installation applications were tracked by Umnitza.

And for the record, sunnyd and umnitza aren't posting from anywhere near the same location.

sunnyd

I totally agree with you Das. I'd have to say I have been cordial but you know I gotta say something back to SunnyD... I find it interesting and curious to say, how this thread just came back to life after it's been dead for a while now and that the only posts that SunnyD contributed to thus far have all been on this thread. And furthermore, it seems a bit odd that SunnyD just signed up on this forum yesterday (12/7/05) right after Umnitza responded back to this post which was as I said before, been dead for a while. Does something smell fishy here? Maybe it's SunnyD.
[/quote]
so now you try to attack me?
the only fishy smell here is under your arm pits, i call a spade a spade when i see one, you may find it curious but i am sure the admin can confirm that i am in Ga which is no where near california. sorry to disappoint but no conspiracies here.

you may not like what i say but its the truth you're a classic e-thug, when things don't go your way you start attacking others, look in the mirror, that's where all your troubles are.

das

Alright, let's all calm down. Don't want any locked threads, here.

umnitza

Lest anyone question why I'm here?
My wife's car is a disaster, yet another thing wrong on the 7, so I'm researching the E60 as a possible alternative.

Then I see my credibility being attacked, so I respond. Nothing more, nothing less.

JC - you have no need to continue this other than a chip on your shoulder what might have been. Let's just back away and let it go.

Thanks for the support of all, and we hope you'll experience our quality products soon as we are making some CF strut bars, intakes, and some other cool HID related products like HID fogs for your cars

m5lover

drama at its finest!sigh

545smg

when modifying a car there's a chance things will not turn exactly as you hope/wish they do, hence the word modifying (to change or alter the original) being pissed off is very understandable, being childish, threatening, vindictive and purposely lying on a public forum explicitly to cause harm and tarnish one's reputation however is not.

the more i read your replies the less sympathy i have for you, you had 100% of it with your first post you are now bellow zero.
[/quote]

The arm pit comment/reply was pretty weak to Choi. Al the bashing is uncalled for. Not to take any sides here but I've stated this in the past. as many may have reviewed.

I do think the forum is a good place to give some leverage to consumers.

If the purchase was predicated on directing choi to an experienced installer and the mfg told him that they done this before -and install was screwed up, I would be pissed to - and maybe I would kindly inform forum members that this mfg. sold me goods on false pretenses by alleviating my worries that he has an experienced installer.

That's it.

If the installer screwed up the install, damaged the car - then I would take it out on my relationship with the "salesman" and the installer.

At the end of the day, I was thinking about doing the same mod, but its not one that I would try myself, I'm going to rely on teh recommendation of the mfg. If he has an installer that's done it before- then maybe I'll purchase.

But I'm not going to purchase angel eyes and have some mechanic install, when perhaps I need an electrician or an engineer that has some experience.

choi000

I think the situation here is that the product isn't necessarily defective (and probably isn't), it's that Choi probably wouldn't have bought them at all if he wasn't led to believe there was a person who could install them. A lot of Umnitza's business probably depends on a capable installer being available to install the part(s). I'll admit I haven't scoured every detail in the previous posts here, but it sounds like it was expected that someone would be able to do this install. However, in the case of a particular part on a particular vehicle, it sounds like sometimes it could be the case no local installer is available. I realize that this upset Choi, especially since it appears that it was presented that the installation would be no problem, and regardless of what did or didn't happen in the ensuing time as far as contacting, it's probably the case that if this one installer wasn't going to be able to do it, no one in his area would be able to. At that point, I probably would have just gotten my money back and eaten the return shipping. Who knows, perhaps Umnitza would have covered the return shipping too. But whatever happened, I'd just chalk it up to experience. I really don't believe Umnitza was out to screw anyone over here, but perhaps Umnitza should have been clearer about that fact that you're buying the part, not the installation (if that's the case - does Umnitza make any guarantee or claim that it WILL be installed?). So I understand Choi's position: he bought something he wanted, and his expectation was that it would be installed. When that couldn't happen, he was upset. But all Umnitza can really do is take it back. If someone isn't in a geographic location where an appropriate installer is available, there's not much they can do. Obviously, if it happens enough, they'll probably figure, "gee, we won't sell any E60 angel eyes in City X because people keep ordering them and we have to keep taking them back because they can't get them installed." Not to diminish anyone's poor experience, and there probably was some miscommunication here on both sides, but it doesn't strike me that Umnitza would basically just want to tell a customer to F off. All they can do is take back the part and apologize that it didn't work out...and Umnitza will probably think twice before telling another E60 customer in Choi's area that the installer can do angel eyes on E60. Though they probably had no reason to believe their installer *wouldn't* be able to do it, perhaps it also wouldn't hurt if more details about specific installation applications were tracked by Umnitza.

And for the record, sunnyd and umnitza aren't posting from anywhere near the same location.
[/quote]

Yes, I do agree that Umnitza's product, the angel eyes, are not defective, and yes I definitely would not have bought the product if I wasn't told by Umnitza that there is a reputable installer in my area that can do the job. So all in all, I did feel cheated.
As for my statement towards Sunnyd. I do apologize, I shouldn't have attacked you earlier.