Issues with Umnitza angel eye/halo install
12-08-2005, 08:54 AM
#41
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12-08-2005, 09:23 AM
#42
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My Ride: E60 M5, F85 X5M
Good points and I for the record, I didn't hesitate to take back my harsh comments after reading Umnitza's replies. I was quick to judge and did state that I respect the fact that Umnitza came on this board to defend their reputation.
You are right, my suggestion does sound absurd at this point in time after all that's been said. Maybe something could have been done differently at the onset of the problem to prevent it from exploding on to this forum? Maybe I'm wrong but I still think perhaps all options were not exhausted to solve the customer's problem so his perception of a bad transaction still persists. Maybe Choi would still be ridiculously upset even if Umnitza gave him the refund and the product.
As for the monetary issue, if it was my dime and I felt it was paltry, I wouldn't mind giving it away. Wanna give me your M3?
Good luck on getting your lease. Peace!
You are right, my suggestion does sound absurd at this point in time after all that's been said. Maybe something could have been done differently at the onset of the problem to prevent it from exploding on to this forum? Maybe I'm wrong but I still think perhaps all options were not exhausted to solve the customer's problem so his perception of a bad transaction still persists. Maybe Choi would still be ridiculously upset even if Umnitza gave him the refund and the product.
As for the monetary issue, if it was my dime and I felt it was paltry, I wouldn't mind giving it away. Wanna give me your M3?
Good luck on getting your lease. Peace!
12-08-2005, 09:36 AM
#43
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My Ride: 2004 545i 6spd, blk on blk, HRE 540R 20x9 in front and 20x10 in rear with Pirelli PZero Neros 245/25/20 front and 295/25/20 rear. H&R springs, and Eisenmann quad exhaust, V! radar detector, black grille, limo tint all around.
Okay, so I bought a set of angel eyes from Matt at Umnitza who told me that I can get the kit installed and that he knows of a very reputable installer who can do the install for me, that is he'll tell me who the installer is once I bought the kit from him. So I said okay; I purchased the angel eyes from him the following day and he said that I'll receive the info on the installer when I receive the kit in the mail. At that time I didn't think much of it, but the kit arrived and even though there were no info on the installer when the kit arrived I gave Matt a call and he finally gave me the info on who the installer was.
This is correct. I told you that Ben, my installer has done many installs and has done a LOT of custom work.
So I set up an appt with the installer Ben, who said he'll be able to do the install. So when the day arrive and I get to his place. I discover that the installer works out of his house
With over 500 installs under his belt, this is hardly an issue but...ok, maybe it's not exactly as professional as you are used to. I can agree with that.
and further more, Matt from Umnitza neglects to tell me earlier that the installer Ben has never installed a set of angel eyes on an E60 before.
Sorry bud, this is false, I told you he did a lot of custom work. I told you he should be able to do yours as well but I also told you that I didn't know if he did or did not install this before. So, maybe there was miscommunication, no one lied to you or misled you on purpose. Especially not for $100 product, I'm not interested in sullying my reputation over $10K, let alone a paltry $100.
The installer said that he's done many installs on other BMW's but no on the E60. Being as trustful of him as I can I take his word that they could get the job done but to no surprise I get a call from him when I was waiting for him to finish the job that they couldn't do the install.
He said he could do it. We didn't make any express claims that we could? Did Umnitza specifically make claims on his behalf? Or, did he installer tell you he thought he could do it? If he could not, then that is how it works out, and we will see if we can find another person that can.
So I wasted half my day with no success and feeling very cheated by the guys at Umnitza.
How did we "cheat" you?
We never charged you for the half-day's labor to disassemble your car.
We never charged you for additional parts.
We never made any false claims or promises
We offered to accept your return 100% no restocking on your product, immediately.
If that is cheating, then I'm sorry you feel the way you do.
I gave Matt a call and he was a big f*#@ing A@#hole!
He wouldn't even admit to his faults, didn't even apologize and was adamently denying that the installer he recommended me to didn't really know what he was doing. I was really close to driving myself up from LA to SF to find him and kick his sorry butt...
Maturity runs both ways. Disrespectful attitudes - especially having your friend act as a liaison and interrupting us while we were doing business at a trade event was casually overlooked right? We run a business, when we are at a trade show - in this case a BMW meet with over 150 cars where people are asking us many different questions about our products, we cannot immediately drop everything. The moment I had a chance, and I was free, you happened to call, and I did take your call and discuss the options with you.
What's more, you failed to mention how you repeatedly attempted to extort some sort of monetary retribution for the time you spent waiting. As if I personally had some sort of control over how long the discovery would take that this particular installer would be unable to perform the work he told you he thought he could do.
What's unprofessional is that we asked your friend to please let us finish our event and we would give you a call immediately. You are important, just like every other customer that was at that event. So, if you think your importance is greater than every other customer, I'm sorry, that is not possible. Every customer is equally important, I don't make a distinction between customers that spend $1K 10K or $100. Maybe you felt you deserved more, I don't know.
I mean how unprofessional could he have been in doing business. I talked to a buddy of mine up in the bay area and he told me that Matt was that shady and that everyone hated him because he's screwed many people over before.
Your buddy? Why don't you tell the whole truth about your "buddy"? Your buddy is a past customer of mine that I worked very very hard to please and did. Then your buddy is also friends with another guy who happened to work for me and is known to have done nothing but lie, steal company secrets, and create 99% of the bad press that swirled around our company when he worked here. He was fired and thus has since gone on a campaign to ruin our reputation as a result. So, I'm not sure you wanted this to be known, but I sure would like it known that our company will not stand for nefarious insults by ex-employees that want to cast libelous words on the web and slanderous speech at all the events. Did your "buddy" also tell you that this past employee also STOLE product only to be discovered later and forced to return it? He'll say something like 'o, my car was stolen, so they were also' <-- I'm sure his car was stolen, but our product was not.
I must tell you all that I am one unhappy customer stuck with a kit that I might not be able to get installed and that nobody can trust Umnitza. :thumbsdown: What they say has no credibility whatsoever, everyone beware!
This is correct. I told you that Ben, my installer has done many installs and has done a LOT of custom work.
So I set up an appt with the installer Ben, who said he'll be able to do the install. So when the day arrive and I get to his place. I discover that the installer works out of his house
With over 500 installs under his belt, this is hardly an issue but...ok, maybe it's not exactly as professional as you are used to. I can agree with that.
and further more, Matt from Umnitza neglects to tell me earlier that the installer Ben has never installed a set of angel eyes on an E60 before.
Sorry bud, this is false, I told you he did a lot of custom work. I told you he should be able to do yours as well but I also told you that I didn't know if he did or did not install this before. So, maybe there was miscommunication, no one lied to you or misled you on purpose. Especially not for $100 product, I'm not interested in sullying my reputation over $10K, let alone a paltry $100.
The installer said that he's done many installs on other BMW's but no on the E60. Being as trustful of him as I can I take his word that they could get the job done but to no surprise I get a call from him when I was waiting for him to finish the job that they couldn't do the install.
He said he could do it. We didn't make any express claims that we could? Did Umnitza specifically make claims on his behalf? Or, did he installer tell you he thought he could do it? If he could not, then that is how it works out, and we will see if we can find another person that can.
So I wasted half my day with no success and feeling very cheated by the guys at Umnitza.
How did we "cheat" you?
We never charged you for the half-day's labor to disassemble your car.
We never charged you for additional parts.
We never made any false claims or promises
We offered to accept your return 100% no restocking on your product, immediately.
If that is cheating, then I'm sorry you feel the way you do.
I gave Matt a call and he was a big f*#@ing A@#hole!
He wouldn't even admit to his faults, didn't even apologize and was adamently denying that the installer he recommended me to didn't really know what he was doing. I was really close to driving myself up from LA to SF to find him and kick his sorry butt... Maturity runs both ways. Disrespectful attitudes - especially having your friend act as a liaison and interrupting us while we were doing business at a trade event was casually overlooked right? We run a business, when we are at a trade show - in this case a BMW meet with over 150 cars where people are asking us many different questions about our products, we cannot immediately drop everything. The moment I had a chance, and I was free, you happened to call, and I did take your call and discuss the options with you.
What's more, you failed to mention how you repeatedly attempted to extort some sort of monetary retribution for the time you spent waiting. As if I personally had some sort of control over how long the discovery would take that this particular installer would be unable to perform the work he told you he thought he could do.
What's unprofessional is that we asked your friend to please let us finish our event and we would give you a call immediately. You are important, just like every other customer that was at that event. So, if you think your importance is greater than every other customer, I'm sorry, that is not possible. Every customer is equally important, I don't make a distinction between customers that spend $1K 10K or $100. Maybe you felt you deserved more, I don't know.
I mean how unprofessional could he have been in doing business. I talked to a buddy of mine up in the bay area and he told me that Matt was that shady and that everyone hated him because he's screwed many people over before.
Your buddy? Why don't you tell the whole truth about your "buddy"? Your buddy is a past customer of mine that I worked very very hard to please and did. Then your buddy is also friends with another guy who happened to work for me and is known to have done nothing but lie, steal company secrets, and create 99% of the bad press that swirled around our company when he worked here. He was fired and thus has since gone on a campaign to ruin our reputation as a result. So, I'm not sure you wanted this to be known, but I sure would like it known that our company will not stand for nefarious insults by ex-employees that want to cast libelous words on the web and slanderous speech at all the events. Did your "buddy" also tell you that this past employee also STOLE product only to be discovered later and forced to return it? He'll say something like 'o, my car was stolen, so they were also' <-- I'm sure his car was stolen, but our product was not.
I must tell you all that I am one unhappy customer stuck with a kit that I might not be able to get installed and that nobody can trust Umnitza. :thumbsdown: What they say has no credibility whatsoever, everyone beware!
-----
To those of you jumping on the bandwagon about negative publicity let me tell you 3 things:
1) We don't have the same employees working here as before, these employees work hard, are trustworthy, take the time to do it right the first time, and are reliable. A company is made up of employees, how good or bad they are reflects on that company. Sometimes, you're lucky (now), sometimes you aren't (then).
2) We work harder than anyone in the industry to please customers, maybe that's why we have over 10000 of them in only 4 years of operation. We have over 5000 shipped products this year alone. Now, we're no BavAuto or Turner, but we will make mistakes in those shipments. We do everything we can to resolve them, learn from them, and not repeat them.
3) Our products are top notch, nothing less goes into our own cars so nothing less goes into yours. We frequently improve, revise, re-invent, and rebuild products to meet OUR highest standards which will meet YOUR highest standards.
-----------
I contacted RK <-- won't name him, he said he'd not done one, but I swore I thought he had, my mistake. RK referred me to another person in Sacramento, that person has still to this day not returned my email or phone call.
On the phone, you mentioned you knew of someone that could do this, I said fine, but at no point were you unable to return this product.
Originally Posted by choi000' post='200504' date='Nov 19 2005, 06:34 AM
Yup. I'm probably going to return it or find someone who actually knows how to install it. A buddy of mine up in the bay area has a friend that did the angel eyes on an E60 up there. So I think I'm gonna see what he says about the install and how risky it is.
[/quote]
Hey buddy,
Your friend Ben might have done plenty of Angel eyes installs but not once has he done it for an E60. Which you neglected to tell me over the phone and had to put Ben on the spot which he said himself that you sometimes tend to do that so you can make a sale. The fact of the matter is, I was unaware of your installer's ability to do the job right, you didn't even give me a name or contact number to Ben until I purchased the angel eyes and it was in my hands where I then proceeded to call you to get the info, which you told me was gonna be shipped along with the set of angel eyes.
Secondly, I never called you back because your call back to me (which was about a week later) was to find out who the guy I knew up in the Bay area that could do the install. So why in the world would I tell you some info like that? What good does it do me? I'm not here to promote your business and I'm definitely not gonna tell you my source about the guy that can do the install. You might or might not know him, but I guess you'll never know.
And if you're gonna go and talk about disrespect, then you should definitely know that disregarding your customers (even after the sale) is disrespectful. I was definitely very cordial to you the first few times but when you start to ignore my requests and push me off aside, then Yes! I am definetly gonna be pissed off. I had my buddy come talk to you at the meet because he lives up there & he was going to that same event, so why not have him ask you to call me back. But when u brush him off as you did me, then yea, my buddy and I got kinda pissed. You told my buddy that you would call me back in a couple of hours, which is the exact same thing you told me several hours before my friend talked to you. So taking 5 minutes of your time to service a client is just too much to ask of you?
I dont' know what the situation was between my friend and your ex-employee but if my buddy also had a bad experience with you then that says something about Umnitza & that I just might not be the only one complaining about Umnitza.
I definitely felt ripped off by you because I wasted half my day trying to get something installed that couldn't be installed by the guy that you said could do the job. So did I pay you for the install? No, but did I waste half a day? Yes... My time is worth something to me, maybe not to you because you make nothing out of it. And I guess that's the difference between a good company and one that is just plain old shady.
Another note, why would I want to return a product to you, pay for shipping, and run the risk of you not returning my money? Judging by your reputation and the things I hear about you, I definitely wouldn't trust you. I have no doubt that the angel eyes are good and all but that's not the complaint here. The problem that I have is with the services or lack of of services that Umnitza didn't provide.
And don't be making comments about the board members here about them jumping on a "bandwagon" of negative publicity. They have their rights to make a comment, thats what the board is all about. Sharing this info so no one else might be put in the same situation as I was. You don't see me making comments about some of the other members here...
Let me tell you something, companies are good because they are respected by the public, especially by their clients. You can't blame others for your bad publicity/reputation but yourself. But hey, atleast now you got a chance to say what you gotta say. By the way, the only compensation that I asked for was a full refund and costs for shipping the item back to you. I could ask you to compensate for my time lost and the fact that I need to go to a bodyshop and get my front bumper reinstalled b/c your guy Ben did a terrible job and there's like a 3/4 inch gap between my bumper and my hood. So I guess from the start I shouldn't have taken the chance in believing Umnitza or the services that they provide, that was my bad.
12-08-2005, 11:34 AM
#44
Former Vendor
With all due respect, it could have simply been ended with a simple - "Looks like there was a misunderstanding, no hard feelings, we all learned something from this"...instead you go and run your mouth again for no good reason. So, in the interest of continuing our reputation, especially given the 3 responses praising us for standing up for ourselves (want a copy of the contents?) I'd like to answer your questions/comments one last time.
Good day.
Here's an example of something private to us:
Originally Posted by choi000' post='200504' date='Nov 19 2005, 06:34 AM
Hey buddy,
Your friend Ben might have done plenty of Angel eyes installs but not once has he done it for an E60. Which you neglected to tell me over the phone and had to put Ben on the spot which he said himself that you sometimes tend to do that so you can make a sale.
I have put Ben on the spot a number of times - I've told him to do an install when he didn't want to, I've told him to be extra careful with cars when he wasn't going to, of course. I try to get the best out of everyone I know. As you know, Ben is a nice young man, he has a lot of learning to do about interacting with customers in some respects, but for the most part, I think he does a good job. That being said, I think you're putting words in his mouth at this point.
The fact of the matter is, I was unaware of your installer's ability to do the job right, you didn't even give me a name or contact number to Ben until I purchased the angel eyes and it was in my hands where I then proceeded to call you to get the info, which you told me was gonna be shipped along with the set of angel eyes.
So, if you issue is that of the timing of the information given to you, that's acceptable and understandable.
Secondly, I never called you back because your call back to me (which was about a week later) was to find out who the guy I knew up in the Bay area that could do the install. So why in the world would I tell you some info like that?
Sorry, I guess I don't follow your logic. First you said I didn't call you back, but then now, a week later I did, so doesn't that tell you that I've been trying to get you information? Should I also tell you every call I made around to find out this information 5 minutes after I made the call? Ok, fair enough. You don't think you need to provide me with any additional information about who you think might install them, then that's fine. Who knows, maybe I could ask that person and find out if they really do know what their talking about or if it's just hearsay.
What good does it do me? I'm not here to promote your business and I'm definitely not gonna tell you my source about the guy that can do the install. You might or might not know him, but I guess you'll never know.
IF - read later down the road in this response - you are "doing it for the good of the community" and letting people know who does this, don't you think then if Umnitza knows about this guy we can direct people to him and HE can make more business work for him? Seems strange to unnecessarily punish another person and not let him have access to more business for him just because you have a chip on your shoulder towards us.
And if you're gonna go and talk about disrespect, then you should definitely know that disregarding your customers (even after the sale) is disrespectful. I was definitely very cordial to you the first few times but when you start to ignore my requests and push me off aside, then Yes! I am definetly gonna be pissed off.
Again, no one disrespected you. By your own admission we called you back, we did our research to see if you could be found a suitable alternative for install. Now, we're told we're disrespectful because we would not drop every other customer in front of us on the day of an event to solve your problem that very minute.
I had my buddy come talk to you at the meet because he lives up there & he was going to that same event, so why not have him ask you to call me back. But when u brush him off as you did me, then yea, my buddy and I got kinda pissed.
No, your "buddy" was not respectful in the least. First of all, sorry to all the smokers out there nothing personal, but he was smoking and blowing ash around me and my car and my coworker at the event. I have nothing against smokers, but I do need a little SPACE to prevent what is largely unhealthy to be near me. SECOND, your "buddy" was rude after I told him on 3 occassions after the event was completed and my car was packed up, I'd take care of your situation. This was exactly 45 minutes. Now, if you tell me your life changed in 45 minutes, then I guess I'm sorry.
You told my buddy that you would call me back in a couple of hours, which is the exact same thing you told me several hours before my friend talked to you. So taking 5 minutes of your time to service a client is just too much to ask of you?
I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear above. I had customers in the event that I was speaking to at the same time you called. I didn't have time to go over details on the phone right that minute, so I asked if there was a better time to call later that day. Unless I'm crazy, but installing angel eyes is not a life threatening, traumatic event that requires an MD or an EMS to treat immediately. I asked if there was a suitable time to call back, I offered 2 hours (enough time to pack up and call you back) and that was it. There is no other discussion past that. Instead, your friend was pushy, argumentative, disrespectful, rude, and downright annoying. I'm sorry, I don't respond well to people like that, and I doubt anyone anywhere does.
I dont' know what the situation was between my friend and your ex-employee but if my buddy also had a bad experience with you then that says something about Umnitza & that I just might not be the only one complaining about Umnitza.
No, all it says is that anyone with a chip on their shoulder has a voice. That means that any child - like my ex-employee - who has a friend that WANTS to beleive him despite all obvious signs contrary will always have a captive audience. Why do you think that there are so many readers of trash like the Enquirer and Globe? People love to see the smoke even when there is no accompanying fire. You aren't the only one complaining by any stretch of the imagination, but like I already stated most of the problems we've encountered in the recent past were largely the result of this one ex-employee's involvement. We are striving to mitigate those issues and have done a good job of late given our very high level of customer satisfaction and repeat business in recent months.
I definitely felt ripped off by you because I wasted half my day trying to get something installed that couldn't be installed by the guy that you said could do the job. So did I pay you for the install? No, but did I waste half a day? Yes... My time is worth something to me, maybe not to you because you make nothing out of it. And I guess that's the difference between a good company and one that is just plain old shady.
You chose to drive to Ben, you chose to wait (you probably could have prepared yourself with "important things to do"), you chose to have them installed. When I visit a dealership, I know that even if it's an oil change, I'm going to have to wait, so I bring business material that allows me to continue to do the work I need to without a hiccup. Maybe you didn't have that foresight, I apologize, I could have let you know it would at minimum take 4 hours. I'm not responsible for how you choose to spend your time waiting for something, if I was, then I'd have to be a personal assistant of yours, and I don't think I'm cut out for that line of work.
Another note, why would I want to return a product to you, pay for shipping, and run the risk of you not returning my money? Judging by your reputation and the things I hear about you, I definitely wouldn't trust you. I have no doubt that the angel eyes are good and all but that's not the complaint here. The problem that I have is with the services or lack of of services that Umnitza didn't provide.
Let's recap. You publicly attempt to destroy my credibility, you are disrespectful, you are argumentative, you offer faulty logic (one minute I did call you the next I neglected you, one minute I offered a bad service, the next my product is good), then you continue an argument for no good reason. Accusing me of shadiness at this point doesn't seem to hold much water, at least to me and a few others on here at least.
And don't be making comments about the board members here about them jumping on a "bandwagon" of negative publicity. They have their rights to make a comment, thats what the board is all about. Sharing this info so no one else might be put in the same situation as I was. You don't see me making comments about some of the other members here...
Don't agree at all. Read the last few responses, everyone jumped the gun then heard the second side of the story and recanted. So please, let's stick to the facts, not etiquette lessons.
Let me tell you something, companies are good because they are respected by the public, especially by their clients. You can't blame others for your bad publicity/reputation but yourself.
Sorry, only in your mind do we appear to have a bad rep, maybe it's the people you mingle with, I don't know. But if you look all over the various public sites and various emails we get from customers that never make it to the light of day, we're quite well respected. I can understand the desire to rush to the judgement that if you think this way, then obviously everyone else does, but that's just not the case. Remember, the one that has his cup spill on the floor will always be the one that yells louder than the one that continues to sip from a cup happily with nothing spilled. My happy customers are thousands, my unhappy ones are tens. Those are averages that are typical of a service based company.
But hey, atleast now you got a chance to say what you gotta say. By the way, the only compensation that I asked for was a full refund and costs for shipping the item back to you.
You were offered it. and here's something very interesting I just found out about your order, you lied publicly about having to ask for my installers information, it was provided to you on the receipt!!!!
Invoice #: 100001451
Description: 2004 545i Predator Basic Basic - Install with Ben Chang - 310 XXX XXXX
I could ask you to compensate for my time lost and the fact that I need to go to a bodyshop and get my front bumper reinstalled b/c your guy Ben did a terrible job and there's like a 3/4 inch gap between my bumper and my hood. So I guess from the start I shouldn't have taken the chance in believing Umnitza or the services that they provide, that was my bad.
Let's refresh once again:
I didn't re-install your car bumper, Ben did. Call Ben, you got his number
I didn't charge you for time, so why should I compensate you for your own time again? I suppose your doctor should also compensate you somehow for making you sit in the waiting room also?
I didn't ever tell you not to return the product.
Our policy is laid out clearly on the web site and also on the purchase receipt, you have to pay for return shipping.
So, you see, we've been nothing but amicable. All I can tell you is that I cannot prevent you from privately lashing out at us, but I WILL tell you this, Karma is a really interesting equalizer, I genuinely feel that if you treat people fairly and well, it comes back to you in spades (the opposite is also true). I know this because I'm the fortunate owner of a business that does everything in its power to make the customer happier than any other business out there and we've been rewarded with record numbers of sales year in and year out. We grow every year, we add products every month, that isn't a sign of a company that doesn't treat its customers well.
Your friend Ben might have done plenty of Angel eyes installs but not once has he done it for an E60. Which you neglected to tell me over the phone and had to put Ben on the spot which he said himself that you sometimes tend to do that so you can make a sale.
I have put Ben on the spot a number of times - I've told him to do an install when he didn't want to, I've told him to be extra careful with cars when he wasn't going to, of course. I try to get the best out of everyone I know. As you know, Ben is a nice young man, he has a lot of learning to do about interacting with customers in some respects, but for the most part, I think he does a good job. That being said, I think you're putting words in his mouth at this point.
The fact of the matter is, I was unaware of your installer's ability to do the job right, you didn't even give me a name or contact number to Ben until I purchased the angel eyes and it was in my hands where I then proceeded to call you to get the info, which you told me was gonna be shipped along with the set of angel eyes.
So, if you issue is that of the timing of the information given to you, that's acceptable and understandable.
Secondly, I never called you back because your call back to me (which was about a week later) was to find out who the guy I knew up in the Bay area that could do the install. So why in the world would I tell you some info like that?
Sorry, I guess I don't follow your logic. First you said I didn't call you back, but then now, a week later I did, so doesn't that tell you that I've been trying to get you information? Should I also tell you every call I made around to find out this information 5 minutes after I made the call? Ok, fair enough. You don't think you need to provide me with any additional information about who you think might install them, then that's fine. Who knows, maybe I could ask that person and find out if they really do know what their talking about or if it's just hearsay.
What good does it do me? I'm not here to promote your business and I'm definitely not gonna tell you my source about the guy that can do the install. You might or might not know him, but I guess you'll never know.
IF - read later down the road in this response - you are "doing it for the good of the community" and letting people know who does this, don't you think then if Umnitza knows about this guy we can direct people to him and HE can make more business work for him? Seems strange to unnecessarily punish another person and not let him have access to more business for him just because you have a chip on your shoulder towards us.
And if you're gonna go and talk about disrespect, then you should definitely know that disregarding your customers (even after the sale) is disrespectful. I was definitely very cordial to you the first few times but when you start to ignore my requests and push me off aside, then Yes! I am definetly gonna be pissed off.
Again, no one disrespected you. By your own admission we called you back, we did our research to see if you could be found a suitable alternative for install. Now, we're told we're disrespectful because we would not drop every other customer in front of us on the day of an event to solve your problem that very minute.
I had my buddy come talk to you at the meet because he lives up there & he was going to that same event, so why not have him ask you to call me back. But when u brush him off as you did me, then yea, my buddy and I got kinda pissed.
No, your "buddy" was not respectful in the least. First of all, sorry to all the smokers out there nothing personal, but he was smoking and blowing ash around me and my car and my coworker at the event. I have nothing against smokers, but I do need a little SPACE to prevent what is largely unhealthy to be near me. SECOND, your "buddy" was rude after I told him on 3 occassions after the event was completed and my car was packed up, I'd take care of your situation. This was exactly 45 minutes. Now, if you tell me your life changed in 45 minutes, then I guess I'm sorry.
You told my buddy that you would call me back in a couple of hours, which is the exact same thing you told me several hours before my friend talked to you. So taking 5 minutes of your time to service a client is just too much to ask of you?
I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear above. I had customers in the event that I was speaking to at the same time you called. I didn't have time to go over details on the phone right that minute, so I asked if there was a better time to call later that day. Unless I'm crazy, but installing angel eyes is not a life threatening, traumatic event that requires an MD or an EMS to treat immediately. I asked if there was a suitable time to call back, I offered 2 hours (enough time to pack up and call you back) and that was it. There is no other discussion past that. Instead, your friend was pushy, argumentative, disrespectful, rude, and downright annoying. I'm sorry, I don't respond well to people like that, and I doubt anyone anywhere does.
I dont' know what the situation was between my friend and your ex-employee but if my buddy also had a bad experience with you then that says something about Umnitza & that I just might not be the only one complaining about Umnitza.
No, all it says is that anyone with a chip on their shoulder has a voice. That means that any child - like my ex-employee - who has a friend that WANTS to beleive him despite all obvious signs contrary will always have a captive audience. Why do you think that there are so many readers of trash like the Enquirer and Globe? People love to see the smoke even when there is no accompanying fire. You aren't the only one complaining by any stretch of the imagination, but like I already stated most of the problems we've encountered in the recent past were largely the result of this one ex-employee's involvement. We are striving to mitigate those issues and have done a good job of late given our very high level of customer satisfaction and repeat business in recent months.
I definitely felt ripped off by you because I wasted half my day trying to get something installed that couldn't be installed by the guy that you said could do the job. So did I pay you for the install? No, but did I waste half a day? Yes... My time is worth something to me, maybe not to you because you make nothing out of it. And I guess that's the difference between a good company and one that is just plain old shady.
You chose to drive to Ben, you chose to wait (you probably could have prepared yourself with "important things to do"), you chose to have them installed. When I visit a dealership, I know that even if it's an oil change, I'm going to have to wait, so I bring business material that allows me to continue to do the work I need to without a hiccup. Maybe you didn't have that foresight, I apologize, I could have let you know it would at minimum take 4 hours. I'm not responsible for how you choose to spend your time waiting for something, if I was, then I'd have to be a personal assistant of yours, and I don't think I'm cut out for that line of work.
Another note, why would I want to return a product to you, pay for shipping, and run the risk of you not returning my money? Judging by your reputation and the things I hear about you, I definitely wouldn't trust you. I have no doubt that the angel eyes are good and all but that's not the complaint here. The problem that I have is with the services or lack of of services that Umnitza didn't provide.
Let's recap. You publicly attempt to destroy my credibility, you are disrespectful, you are argumentative, you offer faulty logic (one minute I did call you the next I neglected you, one minute I offered a bad service, the next my product is good), then you continue an argument for no good reason. Accusing me of shadiness at this point doesn't seem to hold much water, at least to me and a few others on here at least.
And don't be making comments about the board members here about them jumping on a "bandwagon" of negative publicity. They have their rights to make a comment, thats what the board is all about. Sharing this info so no one else might be put in the same situation as I was. You don't see me making comments about some of the other members here...
Don't agree at all. Read the last few responses, everyone jumped the gun then heard the second side of the story and recanted. So please, let's stick to the facts, not etiquette lessons.
Let me tell you something, companies are good because they are respected by the public, especially by their clients. You can't blame others for your bad publicity/reputation but yourself.
Sorry, only in your mind do we appear to have a bad rep, maybe it's the people you mingle with, I don't know. But if you look all over the various public sites and various emails we get from customers that never make it to the light of day, we're quite well respected. I can understand the desire to rush to the judgement that if you think this way, then obviously everyone else does, but that's just not the case. Remember, the one that has his cup spill on the floor will always be the one that yells louder than the one that continues to sip from a cup happily with nothing spilled. My happy customers are thousands, my unhappy ones are tens. Those are averages that are typical of a service based company.
But hey, atleast now you got a chance to say what you gotta say. By the way, the only compensation that I asked for was a full refund and costs for shipping the item back to you.
You were offered it. and here's something very interesting I just found out about your order, you lied publicly about having to ask for my installers information, it was provided to you on the receipt!!!!
Invoice #: 100001451
Description: 2004 545i Predator Basic Basic - Install with Ben Chang - 310 XXX XXXX
I could ask you to compensate for my time lost and the fact that I need to go to a bodyshop and get my front bumper reinstalled b/c your guy Ben did a terrible job and there's like a 3/4 inch gap between my bumper and my hood. So I guess from the start I shouldn't have taken the chance in believing Umnitza or the services that they provide, that was my bad.
Let's refresh once again:
I didn't re-install your car bumper, Ben did. Call Ben, you got his number
I didn't charge you for time, so why should I compensate you for your own time again? I suppose your doctor should also compensate you somehow for making you sit in the waiting room also?
I didn't ever tell you not to return the product.
Our policy is laid out clearly on the web site and also on the purchase receipt, you have to pay for return shipping.
So, you see, we've been nothing but amicable. All I can tell you is that I cannot prevent you from privately lashing out at us, but I WILL tell you this, Karma is a really interesting equalizer, I genuinely feel that if you treat people fairly and well, it comes back to you in spades (the opposite is also true). I know this because I'm the fortunate owner of a business that does everything in its power to make the customer happier than any other business out there and we've been rewarded with record numbers of sales year in and year out. We grow every year, we add products every month, that isn't a sign of a company that doesn't treat its customers well.
Here's an example of something private to us:
Originally Posted by user
i respect the fact that you backed yourself up. anyways im sure your a good reputable company, sometime thing dont go the way its supposed to.. but the fact that you replied and offered a solution makes you a professional business person.. anyways good luck to ya and have a nice holiday.. XXXX X
12-08-2005, 12:12 PM
#45
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My Ride: 2004 545i 6spd, blk on blk, HRE 540R 20x9 in front and 20x10 in rear with Pirelli PZero Neros 245/25/20 front and 295/25/20 rear. H&R springs, and Eisenmann quad exhaust, V! radar detector, black grille, limo tint all around.
Hey buddy,
Your friend Ben might have done plenty of Angel eyes installs but not once has he done it for an E60. Which you neglected to tell me over the phone and had to put Ben on the spot which he said himself that you sometimes tend to do that so you can make a sale.
I have put Ben on the spot a number of times - I've told him to do an install when he didn't want to, I've told him to be extra careful with cars when he wasn't going to, of course. I try to get the best out of everyone I know. As you know, Ben is a nice young man, he has a lot of learning to do about interacting with customers in some respects, but for the most part, I think he does a good job. That being said, I think you're putting words in his mouth at this point.
The fact of the matter is, I was unaware of your installer's ability to do the job right, you didn't even give me a name or contact number to Ben until I purchased the angel eyes and it was in my hands where I then proceeded to call you to get the info, which you told me was gonna be shipped along with the set of angel eyes.
So, if you issue is that of the timing of the information given to you, that's acceptable and understandable.
Secondly, I never called you back because your call back to me (which was about a week later) was to find out who the guy I knew up in the Bay area that could do the install. So why in the world would I tell you some info like that?
Sorry, I guess I don't follow your logic. First you said I didn't call you back, but then now, a week later I did, so doesn't that tell you that I've been trying to get you information? Should I also tell you every call I made around to find out this information 5 minutes after I made the call? Ok, fair enough. You don't think you need to provide me with any additional information about who you think might install them, then that's fine. Who knows, maybe I could ask that person and find out if they really do know what their talking about or if it's just hearsay.
What good does it do me? I'm not here to promote your business and I'm definitely not gonna tell you my source about the guy that can do the install. You might or might not know him, but I guess you'll never know.
IF - read later down the road in this response - you are "doing it for the good of the community" and letting people know who does this, don't you think then if Umnitza knows about this guy we can direct people to him and HE can make more business work for him? Seems strange to unnecessarily punish another person and not let him have access to more business for him just because you have a chip on your shoulder towards us.
And if you're gonna go and talk about disrespect, then you should definitely know that disregarding your customers (even after the sale) is disrespectful. I was definitely very cordial to you the first few times but when you start to ignore my requests and push me off aside, then Yes! I am definetly gonna be pissed off.
Again, no one disrespected you. By your own admission we called you back, we did our research to see if you could be found a suitable alternative for install. Now, we're told we're disrespectful because we would not drop every other customer in front of us on the day of an event to solve your problem that very minute.
I had my buddy come talk to you at the meet because he lives up there & he was going to that same event, so why not have him ask you to call me back. But when u brush him off as you did me, then yea, my buddy and I got kinda pissed.
No, your "buddy" was not respectful in the least. First of all, sorry to all the smokers out there nothing personal, but he was smoking and blowing ash around me and my car and my coworker at the event. I have nothing against smokers, but I do need a little SPACE to prevent what is largely unhealthy to be near me. SECOND, your "buddy" was rude after I told him on 3 occassions after the event was completed and my car was packed up, I'd take care of your situation. This was exactly 45 minutes. Now, if you tell me your life changed in 45 minutes, then I guess I'm sorry.
You told my buddy that you would call me back in a couple of hours, which is the exact same thing you told me several hours before my friend talked to you. So taking 5 minutes of your time to service a client is just too much to ask of you?
I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear above. I had customers in the event that I was speaking to at the same time you called. I didn't have time to go over details on the phone right that minute, so I asked if there was a better time to call later that day. Unless I'm crazy, but installing angel eyes is not a life threatening, traumatic event that requires an MD or an EMS to treat immediately. I asked if there was a suitable time to call back, I offered 2 hours (enough time to pack up and call you back) and that was it. There is no other discussion past that. Instead, your friend was pushy, argumentative, disrespectful, rude, and downright annoying. I'm sorry, I don't respond well to people like that, and I doubt anyone anywhere does.
I dont' know what the situation was between my friend and your ex-employee but if my buddy also had a bad experience with you then that says something about Umnitza & that I just might not be the only one complaining about Umnitza.
No, all it says is that anyone with a chip on their shoulder has a voice. That means that any child - like my ex-employee - who has a friend that WANTS to beleive him despite all obvious signs contrary will always have a captive audience. Why do you think that there are so many readers of trash like the Enquirer and Globe? People love to see the smoke even when there is no accompanying fire. You aren't the only one complaining by any stretch of the imagination, but like I already stated most of the problems we've encountered in the recent past were largely the result of this one ex-employee's involvement. We are striving to mitigate those issues and have done a good job of late given our very high level of customer satisfaction and repeat business in recent months.
I definitely felt ripped off by you because I wasted half my day trying to get something installed that couldn't be installed by the guy that you said could do the job. So did I pay you for the install? No, but did I waste half a day? Yes... My time is worth something to me, maybe not to you because you make nothing out of it. And I guess that's the difference between a good company and one that is just plain old shady.
You chose to drive to Ben, you chose to wait (you probably could have prepared yourself with "important things to do"), you chose to have them installed. When I visit a dealership, I know that even if it's an oil change, I'm going to have to wait, so I bring business material that allows me to continue to do the work I need to without a hiccup. Maybe you didn't have that foresight, I apologize, I could have let you know it would at minimum take 4 hours. I'm not responsible for how you choose to spend your time waiting for something, if I was, then I'd have to be a personal assistant of yours, and I don't think I'm cut out for that line of work.
Another note, why would I want to return a product to you, pay for shipping, and run the risk of you not returning my money? Judging by your reputation and the things I hear about you, I definitely wouldn't trust you. I have no doubt that the angel eyes are good and all but that's not the complaint here. The problem that I have is with the services or lack of of services that Umnitza didn't provide.
Let's recap. You publicly attempt to destroy my credibility, you are disrespectful, you are argumentative, you offer faulty logic (one minute I did call you the next I neglected you, one minute I offered a bad service, the next my product is good), then you continue an argument for no good reason. Accusing me of shadiness at this point doesn't seem to hold much water, at least to me and a few others on here at least.
And don't be making comments about the board members here about them jumping on a "bandwagon" of negative publicity. They have their rights to make a comment, thats what the board is all about. Sharing this info so no one else might be put in the same situation as I was. You don't see me making comments about some of the other members here...
Don't agree at all. Read the last few responses, everyone jumped the gun then heard the second side of the story and recanted. So please, let's stick to the facts, not etiquette lessons.
Let me tell you something, companies are good because they are respected by the public, especially by their clients. You can't blame others for your bad publicity/reputation but yourself.
Sorry, only in your mind do we appear to have a bad rep, maybe it's the people you mingle with, I don't know. But if you look all over the various public sites and various emails we get from customers that never make it to the light of day, we're quite well respected. I can understand the desire to rush to the judgement that if you think this way, then obviously everyone else does, but that's just not the case. Remember, the one that has his cup spill on the floor will always be the one that yells louder than the one that continues to sip from a cup happily with nothing spilled. My happy customers are thousands, my unhappy ones are tens. Those are averages that are typical of a service based company.
But hey, atleast now you got a chance to say what you gotta say. By the way, the only compensation that I asked for was a full refund and costs for shipping the item back to you.
You were offered it. and here's something very interesting I just found out about your order, you lied publicly about having to ask for my installers information, it was provided to you on the receipt!!!!
Invoice #: 100001451
Description: 2004 545i Predator Basic Basic - Install with Ben Chang - 310 XXX XXXX
I could ask you to compensate for my time lost and the fact that I need to go to a bodyshop and get my front bumper reinstalled b/c your guy Ben did a terrible job and there's like a 3/4 inch gap between my bumper and my hood. So I guess from the start I shouldn't have taken the chance in believing Umnitza or the services that they provide, that was my bad.
Let's refresh once again:
I didn't re-install your car bumper, Ben did. Call Ben, you got his number
I didn't charge you for time, so why should I compensate you for your own time again? I suppose your doctor should also compensate you somehow for making you sit in the waiting room also?
I didn't ever tell you not to return the product.
Our policy is laid out clearly on the web site and also on the purchase receipt, you have to pay for return shipping.
So, you see, we've been nothing but amicable. All I can tell you is that I cannot prevent you from privately lashing out at us, but I WILL tell you this, Karma is a really interesting equalizer, I genuinely feel that if you treat people fairly and well, it comes back to you in spades (the opposite is also true). I know this because I'm the fortunate owner of a business that does everything in its power to make the customer happier than any other business out there and we've been rewarded with record numbers of sales year in and year out. We grow every year, we add products every month, that isn't a sign of a company that doesn't treat its customers well.
Your friend Ben might have done plenty of Angel eyes installs but not once has he done it for an E60. Which you neglected to tell me over the phone and had to put Ben on the spot which he said himself that you sometimes tend to do that so you can make a sale.
I have put Ben on the spot a number of times - I've told him to do an install when he didn't want to, I've told him to be extra careful with cars when he wasn't going to, of course. I try to get the best out of everyone I know. As you know, Ben is a nice young man, he has a lot of learning to do about interacting with customers in some respects, but for the most part, I think he does a good job. That being said, I think you're putting words in his mouth at this point.
The fact of the matter is, I was unaware of your installer's ability to do the job right, you didn't even give me a name or contact number to Ben until I purchased the angel eyes and it was in my hands where I then proceeded to call you to get the info, which you told me was gonna be shipped along with the set of angel eyes.
So, if you issue is that of the timing of the information given to you, that's acceptable and understandable.
Secondly, I never called you back because your call back to me (which was about a week later) was to find out who the guy I knew up in the Bay area that could do the install. So why in the world would I tell you some info like that?
Sorry, I guess I don't follow your logic. First you said I didn't call you back, but then now, a week later I did, so doesn't that tell you that I've been trying to get you information? Should I also tell you every call I made around to find out this information 5 minutes after I made the call? Ok, fair enough. You don't think you need to provide me with any additional information about who you think might install them, then that's fine. Who knows, maybe I could ask that person and find out if they really do know what their talking about or if it's just hearsay.
What good does it do me? I'm not here to promote your business and I'm definitely not gonna tell you my source about the guy that can do the install. You might or might not know him, but I guess you'll never know.
IF - read later down the road in this response - you are "doing it for the good of the community" and letting people know who does this, don't you think then if Umnitza knows about this guy we can direct people to him and HE can make more business work for him? Seems strange to unnecessarily punish another person and not let him have access to more business for him just because you have a chip on your shoulder towards us.
And if you're gonna go and talk about disrespect, then you should definitely know that disregarding your customers (even after the sale) is disrespectful. I was definitely very cordial to you the first few times but when you start to ignore my requests and push me off aside, then Yes! I am definetly gonna be pissed off.
Again, no one disrespected you. By your own admission we called you back, we did our research to see if you could be found a suitable alternative for install. Now, we're told we're disrespectful because we would not drop every other customer in front of us on the day of an event to solve your problem that very minute.
I had my buddy come talk to you at the meet because he lives up there & he was going to that same event, so why not have him ask you to call me back. But when u brush him off as you did me, then yea, my buddy and I got kinda pissed.
No, your "buddy" was not respectful in the least. First of all, sorry to all the smokers out there nothing personal, but he was smoking and blowing ash around me and my car and my coworker at the event. I have nothing against smokers, but I do need a little SPACE to prevent what is largely unhealthy to be near me. SECOND, your "buddy" was rude after I told him on 3 occassions after the event was completed and my car was packed up, I'd take care of your situation. This was exactly 45 minutes. Now, if you tell me your life changed in 45 minutes, then I guess I'm sorry.
You told my buddy that you would call me back in a couple of hours, which is the exact same thing you told me several hours before my friend talked to you. So taking 5 minutes of your time to service a client is just too much to ask of you?
I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear above. I had customers in the event that I was speaking to at the same time you called. I didn't have time to go over details on the phone right that minute, so I asked if there was a better time to call later that day. Unless I'm crazy, but installing angel eyes is not a life threatening, traumatic event that requires an MD or an EMS to treat immediately. I asked if there was a suitable time to call back, I offered 2 hours (enough time to pack up and call you back) and that was it. There is no other discussion past that. Instead, your friend was pushy, argumentative, disrespectful, rude, and downright annoying. I'm sorry, I don't respond well to people like that, and I doubt anyone anywhere does.
I dont' know what the situation was between my friend and your ex-employee but if my buddy also had a bad experience with you then that says something about Umnitza & that I just might not be the only one complaining about Umnitza.
No, all it says is that anyone with a chip on their shoulder has a voice. That means that any child - like my ex-employee - who has a friend that WANTS to beleive him despite all obvious signs contrary will always have a captive audience. Why do you think that there are so many readers of trash like the Enquirer and Globe? People love to see the smoke even when there is no accompanying fire. You aren't the only one complaining by any stretch of the imagination, but like I already stated most of the problems we've encountered in the recent past were largely the result of this one ex-employee's involvement. We are striving to mitigate those issues and have done a good job of late given our very high level of customer satisfaction and repeat business in recent months.
I definitely felt ripped off by you because I wasted half my day trying to get something installed that couldn't be installed by the guy that you said could do the job. So did I pay you for the install? No, but did I waste half a day? Yes... My time is worth something to me, maybe not to you because you make nothing out of it. And I guess that's the difference between a good company and one that is just plain old shady.
You chose to drive to Ben, you chose to wait (you probably could have prepared yourself with "important things to do"), you chose to have them installed. When I visit a dealership, I know that even if it's an oil change, I'm going to have to wait, so I bring business material that allows me to continue to do the work I need to without a hiccup. Maybe you didn't have that foresight, I apologize, I could have let you know it would at minimum take 4 hours. I'm not responsible for how you choose to spend your time waiting for something, if I was, then I'd have to be a personal assistant of yours, and I don't think I'm cut out for that line of work.
Another note, why would I want to return a product to you, pay for shipping, and run the risk of you not returning my money? Judging by your reputation and the things I hear about you, I definitely wouldn't trust you. I have no doubt that the angel eyes are good and all but that's not the complaint here. The problem that I have is with the services or lack of of services that Umnitza didn't provide.
Let's recap. You publicly attempt to destroy my credibility, you are disrespectful, you are argumentative, you offer faulty logic (one minute I did call you the next I neglected you, one minute I offered a bad service, the next my product is good), then you continue an argument for no good reason. Accusing me of shadiness at this point doesn't seem to hold much water, at least to me and a few others on here at least.
And don't be making comments about the board members here about them jumping on a "bandwagon" of negative publicity. They have their rights to make a comment, thats what the board is all about. Sharing this info so no one else might be put in the same situation as I was. You don't see me making comments about some of the other members here...
Don't agree at all. Read the last few responses, everyone jumped the gun then heard the second side of the story and recanted. So please, let's stick to the facts, not etiquette lessons.
Let me tell you something, companies are good because they are respected by the public, especially by their clients. You can't blame others for your bad publicity/reputation but yourself.
Sorry, only in your mind do we appear to have a bad rep, maybe it's the people you mingle with, I don't know. But if you look all over the various public sites and various emails we get from customers that never make it to the light of day, we're quite well respected. I can understand the desire to rush to the judgement that if you think this way, then obviously everyone else does, but that's just not the case. Remember, the one that has his cup spill on the floor will always be the one that yells louder than the one that continues to sip from a cup happily with nothing spilled. My happy customers are thousands, my unhappy ones are tens. Those are averages that are typical of a service based company.
But hey, atleast now you got a chance to say what you gotta say. By the way, the only compensation that I asked for was a full refund and costs for shipping the item back to you.
You were offered it. and here's something very interesting I just found out about your order, you lied publicly about having to ask for my installers information, it was provided to you on the receipt!!!!
Invoice #: 100001451
Description: 2004 545i Predator Basic Basic - Install with Ben Chang - 310 XXX XXXX
I could ask you to compensate for my time lost and the fact that I need to go to a bodyshop and get my front bumper reinstalled b/c your guy Ben did a terrible job and there's like a 3/4 inch gap between my bumper and my hood. So I guess from the start I shouldn't have taken the chance in believing Umnitza or the services that they provide, that was my bad.
Let's refresh once again:
I didn't re-install your car bumper, Ben did. Call Ben, you got his number
I didn't charge you for time, so why should I compensate you for your own time again? I suppose your doctor should also compensate you somehow for making you sit in the waiting room also?
I didn't ever tell you not to return the product.
Our policy is laid out clearly on the web site and also on the purchase receipt, you have to pay for return shipping.
So, you see, we've been nothing but amicable. All I can tell you is that I cannot prevent you from privately lashing out at us, but I WILL tell you this, Karma is a really interesting equalizer, I genuinely feel that if you treat people fairly and well, it comes back to you in spades (the opposite is also true). I know this because I'm the fortunate owner of a business that does everything in its power to make the customer happier than any other business out there and we've been rewarded with record numbers of sales year in and year out. We grow every year, we add products every month, that isn't a sign of a company that doesn't treat its customers well.
Here's an example of something private to us:
Originally Posted by user
i respect the fact that you backed yourself up. anyways im sure your a good reputable company, sometime thing dont go the way its supposed to.. but the fact that you replied and offered a solution makes you a professional business person.. anyways good luck to ya and have a nice holiday.. XXXX X
[quote name='umnitza' date='Dec 8 2005, 12:34 PM' post='208824']
With all due respect, it could have simply been ended with a simple - "Looks like there was a misunderstanding, no hard feelings, we all learned something from this"...instead you go and run your mouth again for no good reason. So, in the interest of continuing our reputation, especially given the 3 responses praising us for standing up for ourselves (want a copy of the contents?) I'd like to answer your questions/comments one last time.
You know, for a company that thinks they're so great and provides great services to their customers, you really don't know how to diffuse a situation. By adding your 2 cents (in the interestes of your own reputation) I will continue to say what I gotta say and that's to warn people that what you offer in service is substandard. And one other thing, no need to try and quote what another board member here about what they say, everyone has already seen the previous posts. And you know what, the only misunderstanding that I got was the fact that you mislead me to believe that you know of a reputable installer in the LA area that can do the angel eyes install, but of course that's not the case because if it was I would have a set of angel eyes installed on my car and there wouldn't be this problem still lingering around.
12-08-2005, 12:43 PM
#46
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My Ride: 2004 545i 6spd, blk on blk, HRE 540R 20x9 in front and 20x10 in rear with Pirelli PZero Neros 245/25/20 front and 295/25/20 rear. H&R springs, and Eisenmann quad exhaust, V! radar detector, black grille, limo tint all around.
[QUOTE=choi000;208838]
Good day.
Here's an example of something private to us:
Oh and the publicly lying about getting your installer info. It was done over the phone with you if you don't recall, so please don't state things that you know are untrue. And of course my receipt does not have Ben's info on it. I know b/c I still have the invoice and the box that came with it. And you're right Karma is an interesting equalizer, like you said, what goes around comes around.
Originally Posted by umnitza' post='208824' date='Dec 8 2005, 12:34 PM
With all due respect, it could have simply been ended with a simple - "Looks like there was a misunderstanding, no hard feelings, we all learned something from this"...instead you go and run your mouth again for no good reason. So, in the interest of continuing our reputation, especially given the 3 responses praising us for standing up for ourselves (want a copy of the contents?) I'd like to answer your questions/comments one last time.
[quote name='choi000' post='200504' date='Nov 19 2005, 06:34 AM']
Hey buddy,
Your friend Ben might have done plenty of Angel eyes installs but not once has he done it for an E60. Which you neglected to tell me over the phone and had to put Ben on the spot which he said himself that you sometimes tend to do that so you can make a sale.
I have put Ben on the spot a number of times - I've told him to do an install when he didn't want to, I've told him to be extra careful with cars when he wasn't going to, of course. I try to get the best out of everyone I know. As you know, Ben is a nice young man, he has a lot of learning to do about interacting with customers in some respects, but for the most part, I think he does a good job. That being said, I think you're putting words in his mouth at this point.
The fact of the matter is, I was unaware of your installer's ability to do the job right, you didn't even give me a name or contact number to Ben until I purchased the angel eyes and it was in my hands where I then proceeded to call you to get the info, which you told me was gonna be shipped along with the set of angel eyes.
So, if you issue is that of the timing of the information given to you, that's acceptable and understandable.
Secondly, I never called you back because your call back to me (which was about a week later) was to find out who the guy I knew up in the Bay area that could do the install. So why in the world would I tell you some info like that?
Sorry, I guess I don't follow your logic. First you said I didn't call you back, but then now, a week later I did, so doesn't that tell you that I've been trying to get you information? Should I also tell you every call I made around to find out this information 5 minutes after I made the call? Ok, fair enough. You don't think you need to provide me with any additional information about who you think might install them, then that's fine. Who knows, maybe I could ask that person and find out if they really do know what their talking about or if it's just hearsay.
What good does it do me? I'm not here to promote your business and I'm definitely not gonna tell you my source about the guy that can do the install. You might or might not know him, but I guess you'll never know.
IF - read later down the road in this response - you are "doing it for the good of the community" and letting people know who does this, don't you think then if Umnitza knows about this guy we can direct people to him and HE can make more business work for him? Seems strange to unnecessarily punish another person and not let him have access to more business for him just because you have a chip on your shoulder towards us.
And if you're gonna go and talk about disrespect, then you should definitely know that disregarding your customers (even after the sale) is disrespectful. I was definitely very cordial to you the first few times but when you start to ignore my requests and push me off aside, then Yes! I am definetly gonna be pissed off.
Again, no one disrespected you. By your own admission we called you back, we did our research to see if you could be found a suitable alternative for install. Now, we're told we're disrespectful because we would not drop every other customer in front of us on the day of an event to solve your problem that very minute.
I had my buddy come talk to you at the meet because he lives up there & he was going to that same event, so why not have him ask you to call me back. But when u brush him off as you did me, then yea, my buddy and I got kinda pissed.
No, your "buddy" was not respectful in the least. First of all, sorry to all the smokers out there nothing personal, but he was smoking and blowing ash around me and my car and my coworker at the event. I have nothing against smokers, but I do need a little SPACE to prevent what is largely unhealthy to be near me. SECOND, your "buddy" was rude after I told him on 3 occassions after the event was completed and my car was packed up, I'd take care of your situation. This was exactly 45 minutes. Now, if you tell me your life changed in 45 minutes, then I guess I'm sorry.
You told my buddy that you would call me back in a couple of hours, which is the exact same thing you told me several hours before my friend talked to you. So taking 5 minutes of your time to service a client is just too much to ask of you?
I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear above. I had customers in the event that I was speaking to at the same time you called. I didn't have time to go over details on the phone right that minute, so I asked if there was a better time to call later that day. Unless I'm crazy, but installing angel eyes is not a life threatening, traumatic event that requires an MD or an EMS to treat immediately. I asked if there was a suitable time to call back, I offered 2 hours (enough time to pack up and call you back) and that was it. There is no other discussion past that. Instead, your friend was pushy, argumentative, disrespectful, rude, and downright annoying. I'm sorry, I don't respond well to people like that, and I doubt anyone anywhere does.
I dont' know what the situation was between my friend and your ex-employee but if my buddy also had a bad experience with you then that says something about Umnitza & that I just might not be the only one complaining about Umnitza.
No, all it says is that anyone with a chip on their shoulder has a voice. That means that any child - like my ex-employee - who has a friend that WANTS to beleive him despite all obvious signs contrary will always have a captive audience. Why do you think that there are so many readers of trash like the Enquirer and Globe? People love to see the smoke even when there is no accompanying fire. You aren't the only one complaining by any stretch of the imagination, but like I already stated most of the problems we've encountered in the recent past were largely the result of this one ex-employee's involvement. We are striving to mitigate those issues and have done a good job of late given our very high level of customer satisfaction and repeat business in recent months.
I definitely felt ripped off by you because I wasted half my day trying to get something installed that couldn't be installed by the guy that you said could do the job. So did I pay you for the install? No, but did I waste half a day? Yes... My time is worth something to me, maybe not to you because you make nothing out of it. And I guess that's the difference between a good company and one that is just plain old shady.
You chose to drive to Ben, you chose to wait (you probably could have prepared yourself with "important things to do"), you chose to have them installed. When I visit a dealership, I know that even if it's an oil change, I'm going to have to wait, so I bring business material that allows me to continue to do the work I need to without a hiccup. Maybe you didn't have that foresight, I apologize, I could have let you know it would at minimum take 4 hours. I'm not responsible for how you choose to spend your time waiting for something, if I was, then I'd have to be a personal assistant of yours, and I don't think I'm cut out for that line of work.
Another note, why would I want to return a product to you, pay for shipping, and run the risk of you not returning my money? Judging by your reputation and the things I hear about you, I definitely wouldn't trust you. I have no doubt that the angel eyes are good and all but that's not the complaint here. The problem that I have is with the services or lack of of services that Umnitza didn't provide.
Let's recap. You publicly attempt to destroy my credibility, you are disrespectful, you are argumentative, you offer faulty logic (one minute I did call you the next I neglected you, one minute I offered a bad service, the next my product is good), then you continue an argument for no good reason. Accusing me of shadiness at this point doesn't seem to hold much water, at least to me and a few others on here at least.
And don't be making comments about the board members here about them jumping on a "bandwagon" of negative publicity. They have their rights to make a comment, thats what the board is all about. Sharing this info so no one else might be put in the same situation as I was. You don't see me making comments about some of the other members here...
Don't agree at all. Read the last few responses, everyone jumped the gun then heard the second side of the story and recanted. So please, let's stick to the facts, not etiquette lessons.
Let me tell you something, companies are good because they are respected by the public, especially by their clients. You can't blame others for your bad publicity/reputation but yourself.
Sorry, only in your mind do we appear to have a bad rep, maybe it's the people you mingle with, I don't know. But if you look all over the various public sites and various emails we get from customers that never make it to the light of day, we're quite well respected. I can understand the desire to rush to the judgement that if you think this way, then obviously everyone else does, but that's just not the case. Remember, the one that has his cup spill on the floor will always be the one that yells louder than the one that continues to sip from a cup happily with nothing spilled. My happy customers are thousands, my unhappy ones are tens. Those are averages that are typical of a service based company.
But hey, atleast now you got a chance to say what you gotta say. By the way, the only compensation that I asked for was a full refund and costs for shipping the item back to you.
You were offered it. and here's something very interesting I just found out about your order, you lied publicly about having to ask for my installers information, it was provided to you on the receipt!!!!
Invoice #: 100001451
Description: 2004 545i Predator Basic Basic - Install with Ben Chang - 310 XXX XXXX
I could ask you to compensate for my time lost and the fact that I need to go to a bodyshop and get my front bumper reinstalled b/c your guy Ben did a terrible job and there's like a 3/4 inch gap between my bumper and my hood. So I guess from the start I shouldn't have taken the chance in believing Umnitza or the services that they provide, that was my bad.
Let's refresh once again:
I didn't re-install your car bumper, Ben did. Call Ben, you got his number
I didn't charge you for time, so why should I compensate you for your own time again? I suppose your doctor should also compensate you somehow for making you sit in the waiting room also?
I didn't ever tell you not to return the product.
Our policy is laid out clearly on the web site and also on the purchase receipt, you have to pay for return shipping.
So, you see, we've been nothing but amicable. All I can tell you is that I cannot prevent you from privately lashing out at us, but I WILL tell you this, Karma is a really interesting equalizer, I genuinely feel that if you treat people fairly and well, it comes back to you in spades (the opposite is also true). I know this because I'm the fortunate owner of a business that does everything in its power to make the customer happier than any other business out there and we've been rewarded with record numbers of sales year in and year out. We grow every year, we add products every month, that isn't a sign of a company that doesn't treat its customers well.
[quote name='choi000' post='200504' date='Nov 19 2005, 06:34 AM']
Hey buddy,
Your friend Ben might have done plenty of Angel eyes installs but not once has he done it for an E60. Which you neglected to tell me over the phone and had to put Ben on the spot which he said himself that you sometimes tend to do that so you can make a sale.
I have put Ben on the spot a number of times - I've told him to do an install when he didn't want to, I've told him to be extra careful with cars when he wasn't going to, of course. I try to get the best out of everyone I know. As you know, Ben is a nice young man, he has a lot of learning to do about interacting with customers in some respects, but for the most part, I think he does a good job. That being said, I think you're putting words in his mouth at this point.
The fact of the matter is, I was unaware of your installer's ability to do the job right, you didn't even give me a name or contact number to Ben until I purchased the angel eyes and it was in my hands where I then proceeded to call you to get the info, which you told me was gonna be shipped along with the set of angel eyes.
So, if you issue is that of the timing of the information given to you, that's acceptable and understandable.
Secondly, I never called you back because your call back to me (which was about a week later) was to find out who the guy I knew up in the Bay area that could do the install. So why in the world would I tell you some info like that?
Sorry, I guess I don't follow your logic. First you said I didn't call you back, but then now, a week later I did, so doesn't that tell you that I've been trying to get you information? Should I also tell you every call I made around to find out this information 5 minutes after I made the call? Ok, fair enough. You don't think you need to provide me with any additional information about who you think might install them, then that's fine. Who knows, maybe I could ask that person and find out if they really do know what their talking about or if it's just hearsay.
What good does it do me? I'm not here to promote your business and I'm definitely not gonna tell you my source about the guy that can do the install. You might or might not know him, but I guess you'll never know.
IF - read later down the road in this response - you are "doing it for the good of the community" and letting people know who does this, don't you think then if Umnitza knows about this guy we can direct people to him and HE can make more business work for him? Seems strange to unnecessarily punish another person and not let him have access to more business for him just because you have a chip on your shoulder towards us.
And if you're gonna go and talk about disrespect, then you should definitely know that disregarding your customers (even after the sale) is disrespectful. I was definitely very cordial to you the first few times but when you start to ignore my requests and push me off aside, then Yes! I am definetly gonna be pissed off.
Again, no one disrespected you. By your own admission we called you back, we did our research to see if you could be found a suitable alternative for install. Now, we're told we're disrespectful because we would not drop every other customer in front of us on the day of an event to solve your problem that very minute.
I had my buddy come talk to you at the meet because he lives up there & he was going to that same event, so why not have him ask you to call me back. But when u brush him off as you did me, then yea, my buddy and I got kinda pissed.
No, your "buddy" was not respectful in the least. First of all, sorry to all the smokers out there nothing personal, but he was smoking and blowing ash around me and my car and my coworker at the event. I have nothing against smokers, but I do need a little SPACE to prevent what is largely unhealthy to be near me. SECOND, your "buddy" was rude after I told him on 3 occassions after the event was completed and my car was packed up, I'd take care of your situation. This was exactly 45 minutes. Now, if you tell me your life changed in 45 minutes, then I guess I'm sorry.
You told my buddy that you would call me back in a couple of hours, which is the exact same thing you told me several hours before my friend talked to you. So taking 5 minutes of your time to service a client is just too much to ask of you?
I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear above. I had customers in the event that I was speaking to at the same time you called. I didn't have time to go over details on the phone right that minute, so I asked if there was a better time to call later that day. Unless I'm crazy, but installing angel eyes is not a life threatening, traumatic event that requires an MD or an EMS to treat immediately. I asked if there was a suitable time to call back, I offered 2 hours (enough time to pack up and call you back) and that was it. There is no other discussion past that. Instead, your friend was pushy, argumentative, disrespectful, rude, and downright annoying. I'm sorry, I don't respond well to people like that, and I doubt anyone anywhere does.
I dont' know what the situation was between my friend and your ex-employee but if my buddy also had a bad experience with you then that says something about Umnitza & that I just might not be the only one complaining about Umnitza.
No, all it says is that anyone with a chip on their shoulder has a voice. That means that any child - like my ex-employee - who has a friend that WANTS to beleive him despite all obvious signs contrary will always have a captive audience. Why do you think that there are so many readers of trash like the Enquirer and Globe? People love to see the smoke even when there is no accompanying fire. You aren't the only one complaining by any stretch of the imagination, but like I already stated most of the problems we've encountered in the recent past were largely the result of this one ex-employee's involvement. We are striving to mitigate those issues and have done a good job of late given our very high level of customer satisfaction and repeat business in recent months.
I definitely felt ripped off by you because I wasted half my day trying to get something installed that couldn't be installed by the guy that you said could do the job. So did I pay you for the install? No, but did I waste half a day? Yes... My time is worth something to me, maybe not to you because you make nothing out of it. And I guess that's the difference between a good company and one that is just plain old shady.
You chose to drive to Ben, you chose to wait (you probably could have prepared yourself with "important things to do"), you chose to have them installed. When I visit a dealership, I know that even if it's an oil change, I'm going to have to wait, so I bring business material that allows me to continue to do the work I need to without a hiccup. Maybe you didn't have that foresight, I apologize, I could have let you know it would at minimum take 4 hours. I'm not responsible for how you choose to spend your time waiting for something, if I was, then I'd have to be a personal assistant of yours, and I don't think I'm cut out for that line of work.
Another note, why would I want to return a product to you, pay for shipping, and run the risk of you not returning my money? Judging by your reputation and the things I hear about you, I definitely wouldn't trust you. I have no doubt that the angel eyes are good and all but that's not the complaint here. The problem that I have is with the services or lack of of services that Umnitza didn't provide.
Let's recap. You publicly attempt to destroy my credibility, you are disrespectful, you are argumentative, you offer faulty logic (one minute I did call you the next I neglected you, one minute I offered a bad service, the next my product is good), then you continue an argument for no good reason. Accusing me of shadiness at this point doesn't seem to hold much water, at least to me and a few others on here at least.
And don't be making comments about the board members here about them jumping on a "bandwagon" of negative publicity. They have their rights to make a comment, thats what the board is all about. Sharing this info so no one else might be put in the same situation as I was. You don't see me making comments about some of the other members here...
Don't agree at all. Read the last few responses, everyone jumped the gun then heard the second side of the story and recanted. So please, let's stick to the facts, not etiquette lessons.
Let me tell you something, companies are good because they are respected by the public, especially by their clients. You can't blame others for your bad publicity/reputation but yourself.
Sorry, only in your mind do we appear to have a bad rep, maybe it's the people you mingle with, I don't know. But if you look all over the various public sites and various emails we get from customers that never make it to the light of day, we're quite well respected. I can understand the desire to rush to the judgement that if you think this way, then obviously everyone else does, but that's just not the case. Remember, the one that has his cup spill on the floor will always be the one that yells louder than the one that continues to sip from a cup happily with nothing spilled. My happy customers are thousands, my unhappy ones are tens. Those are averages that are typical of a service based company.
But hey, atleast now you got a chance to say what you gotta say. By the way, the only compensation that I asked for was a full refund and costs for shipping the item back to you.
You were offered it. and here's something very interesting I just found out about your order, you lied publicly about having to ask for my installers information, it was provided to you on the receipt!!!!
Invoice #: 100001451
Description: 2004 545i Predator Basic Basic - Install with Ben Chang - 310 XXX XXXX
I could ask you to compensate for my time lost and the fact that I need to go to a bodyshop and get my front bumper reinstalled b/c your guy Ben did a terrible job and there's like a 3/4 inch gap between my bumper and my hood. So I guess from the start I shouldn't have taken the chance in believing Umnitza or the services that they provide, that was my bad.
Let's refresh once again:
I didn't re-install your car bumper, Ben did. Call Ben, you got his number
I didn't charge you for time, so why should I compensate you for your own time again? I suppose your doctor should also compensate you somehow for making you sit in the waiting room also?
I didn't ever tell you not to return the product.
Our policy is laid out clearly on the web site and also on the purchase receipt, you have to pay for return shipping.
So, you see, we've been nothing but amicable. All I can tell you is that I cannot prevent you from privately lashing out at us, but I WILL tell you this, Karma is a really interesting equalizer, I genuinely feel that if you treat people fairly and well, it comes back to you in spades (the opposite is also true). I know this because I'm the fortunate owner of a business that does everything in its power to make the customer happier than any other business out there and we've been rewarded with record numbers of sales year in and year out. We grow every year, we add products every month, that isn't a sign of a company that doesn't treat its customers well.
Here's an example of something private to us:
Originally Posted by user
i respect the fact that you backed yourself up. anyways im sure your a good reputable company;208824]With all due respect, it could have simply been ended with a simple - "Looks like there was a misunderstanding, no hard feelings, we all learned something from this"...instead you go and run your mouth again for no good reason. So, in the interest of continuing our reputation, especially given the 3 responses praising us for standing up for ourselves (want a copy of the contents?) I'd like to answer your questions/comments one last time.
You know, for a company that thinks they're so great and provides great services to their customers, you really don't know how to diffuse a situation. By adding your 2 cents (in the interestes of your own reputation) I will continue to say what I gotta say and that's to warn people that what you offer in service is substandard. And one other thing, no need to try and quote what another board member here about what they say, everyone has already seen the previous posts. And you know what, the only misunderstanding that I got was the fact that you mislead me to believe that you know of a reputable installer in the LA area that can do the angel eyes install, but of course that's not the case because if it was I would have a set of angel eyes installed on my car and there wouldn't be this problem still lingering around.
You know, for a company that thinks they're so great and provides great services to their customers, you really don't know how to diffuse a situation. By adding your 2 cents (in the interestes of your own reputation) I will continue to say what I gotta say and that's to warn people that what you offer in service is substandard. And one other thing, no need to try and quote what another board member here about what they say, everyone has already seen the previous posts. And you know what, the only misunderstanding that I got was the fact that you mislead me to believe that you know of a reputable installer in the LA area that can do the angel eyes install, but of course that's not the case because if it was I would have a set of angel eyes installed on my car and there wouldn't be this problem still lingering around.
12-08-2005, 01:13 PM
#47
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I have a question. Did, or did not, Umnitza offer a full and complete refund when the installer decided he couldn't do the E60 install for whatever reason?
If they did, I don't see what the problem is here, other than inconvenience.
If they did, I don't see what the problem is here, other than inconvenience.
12-08-2005, 01:39 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by das' post='208848' date='Dec 8 2005, 05:13 PM
I have a question. Did, or did not, Umnitza offer a full and complete refund when the installer decided he couldn't do the E60 install for whatever reason?
If they did, I don't see what the problem is here, other than inconvenience.
If they did, I don't see what the problem is here, other than inconvenience.
he also said they would not provide him the installer's info which seems to be an untrue claim if you believe the emails from umnitza are genuine which at this point i have no reason to doubt.
it just seems that this guy somehow somewhere lost the meaning of a DYI kit, apparently was accommodated by the vendor and the third party installer and when they had no success umnitza offered to give him a full refund which he obviously nixed since he still has the goods, i guess he was holding out for more and when he got none he decided the best course of action was to try to soil their reputation for not submitting to being extorted.
dude no offense but you come across as a total jerk, in this country and many others, being ripped off means not getting the product you paid for, you may have been disappointed or frustrated by the lack of success of install and whatnot but you were not ripped off by any stretch of imagination except for yours.
12-08-2005, 01:39 PM
#49
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My Ride: 2004 545i 6spd, blk on blk, HRE 540R 20x9 in front and 20x10 in rear with Pirelli PZero Neros 245/25/20 front and 295/25/20 rear. H&R springs, and Eisenmann quad exhaust, V! radar detector, black grille, limo tint all around.
Originally Posted by das' post='208848' date='Dec 8 2005, 02:13 PM
I have a question. Did, or did not, Umnitza offer a full and complete refund when the installer decided he couldn't do the E60 install for whatever reason?
If they did, I don't see what the problem is here, other than inconvenience.
If they did, I don't see what the problem is here, other than inconvenience.
Now the inconvenience part is also of an issue considering I still need to get my bumper reinstalled correctly because Umitza's guy Ben didn't do the job correctly and there's a 3/4 inch gap between my bumper and the hood. And that's gonna cost money to do.
12-08-2005, 01:57 PM
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Now the inconvenience part is also of an issue considering I still need to get my bumper reinstalled correctly because Umitza's guy Ben didn't do the job correctly and there's a 3/4 inch gap between my bumper and the hood. And that's gonna cost money to do.
[/quote]
when modifying a car there's a chance things will not turn exactly as you hope/wish they do, hence the word modifying (to change or alter the original) being pissed off is very understandable, being childish, threatening, vindictive and purposely lying on a public forum explicitly to cause harm and tarnish one's reputation however is not.
the more i read your replies the less sympathy i have for you, you had 100% of it with your first post you are now bellow zero.