russo

You guys keep calling Lexus an upgraded Toyota as if that is a bad thing. Is it ??
The definition of luxury is the enjoyment of costly things or anything enjoyable that is usually something not necessary; so the fact Toyota put to good use their quality then add luxury to it is smart (to me )

Of course , I'm sure you guys buying decisions are not based on the need for a status symbol--a little $2 flying propeller or three-pointed star--because if you are, then there must be lots of insecure people around here . LOL ...

I can't imagine the amount of quality issues a BMW owner has to endure (e.g EdLee) , and yet continue to sing praises for the brand.

It seems to me the blind loyalty to the brand is misguided and misaligned .
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Cool it Lexi, I think what eggz meant was that Lexus is made by the parent company Toyota. Which bascially has the same driving feel, build quality, engine, leather smell etc, only slapped on with another presitgous badge.

I believe each and every car have their own problems. I'm sure whatever car you are driving now or has drove, has or had problems which has been settled by the agent under warrenty. Edlee is one such example. He happen to be open to us in his issues and there is totally nothing wrong with that.

I'm sure you and everyone else have preference in different types of cars. That is why there are so many different variants on the market to satisfy each needs and desires. Be it a normal mode of transportation or status symbol, I believe everyone has the right to buy whichever car they desire. At the end of the day, there is no right or wrong car.

And here in e60 forum, we happen to be driving something we are proud of. Something that we look forward to driving every single day. A BMW.

Lexi

Thanks for the Welcome ; though I must say you are a little way too presumptuous here

I had 2 Beamers before , 1999 to 2001 , I had a 328 Coupe , 2001 to 2004 , I had a E39 525 ; both were full specs car (Harman , GPS , TV , PDC etc ) . Hopefully, that means I get the mandate to share my views

Why did I buy a BMW ? Slick Marketing , and because it was real "cheap" for me . I was based in Europe for a while ; when I returned , managed to successfully import from netherlands to SG brand new cars fresh from the factory . I saved b/w 34k to 43k for each car compared to what PML was selling them for. After trashing the cars for about 22 to 30 months , I sold them without losing much .(guess I can't complain with depreciation of < $5k a year !)

So to a large extent , I can comprehend the "excitement" of a BMW owner , but geez.. over time , the reliability of the make has deterioriated so badly, esp in the last few years ; in fact besides the handling , I have very little positive comments about the brand.

and what's more there are so MANY marginal users here in SG (e.g 520, 318 etc ). Cars like the E60, E39 are meant to be enjoyed (hence the 'drive' as you indicated in your post ) in 2500 cc and above , not puny engines struggling to churn out the bhp ....

Edlee

I have no choice but to clarify myself.

I love my BMWs. I might have not had the chance to import my vehicles at a steal, but I will pay whatever premium I can afford. My problems, if some people bothered to read, were with the distributor, PML and not with the brand. These problems have since been sorted out and all is now well.

We now come to the marginal owners who drive 318 and 520. These drivers cannot afford 545s and M3s. They make do with whatever they can afford and I can tell you, they love their cars. Pay a visit to theBMW.sg forum get together days at Macdonalds East Coast and you will see what I mean. It is not right to judge them.

With regards to me and my ride, I invite you who conveniently uses me as an example to meet me face to face and tell me straight what you meant in your thread.

Stranger

Ed, Tategoi, russo and the rest, I think having a cuppa one of these days together is more meaningful.

new owner

My sentiments exactly Edlee.

Hey, I drive a 520I and I strongly resent being called a "marginal user" !

eggz

Yeah Lexi, this being a BMW forum, folks will occasionally make digs at other makes, it's all in a bit of fun.

I do respect Lexus as a car brand and Toyota who make them. I think they are very good cars. The day that Lexus can make cars like they do now, but with the kind of driving dynamics and technology you find in a BMW, I'll buy one!

There is something about how a BMW drives, they way it's been tweaked to almost perfection in terms of weight distribution, how the suspension setup works at low and high speeds. The cars just love to be driven hard!

If you think driving a BMW brings a smile to your face on regular roads, try it on the track, you'll be laughing....the balance in the car is just so good.

At Sepang I threw the car into corners, made the tail come out, maximum late braking, change gears at 4-5K rpm after every corner and the car just soaked it up and never once falterd, I even used engine braking when approaching some of the corners. The steering feel is so good, it's almost telepathic, just point the nose and the car goes exactly where you are thinking of going!

After what...10 laps, no brake fade, no transmission hiccups, no over-heating, the car didn't even break a sweat!


eggz

lexi

Actually , the BMW "problems' don't just lie with the distributor ; even at the highest level of the "brand" , it is recognized is acknowledged that their cars face a host of quality and reliability problems , and become more prone to frequent breakdowns .
This is from the horses mouth , no less than BMW chief executive Helmut Panke himself , just a few days ago . ( http://news.ft.com/cms/s/5b25d3fe-8abf-11d...000e2511c8.html . )

A few months ago , I had a friend whose brand new E60 gears got locked and he lost all power , while he was about to make a right turn at a major junction- Lucky no one got killed .


Look no further than the JD Power long-term reliability rankings of manufacturers and you see the real issue. Luxury is (to me anyway ) about not having your time wasted. while your car is stuck at the workshop (again)


I guess what I am also really asking is why are people so loyal here so loyal to the brand despite all this glaring problems ? It is almost akin to blind loyalty (for want of a better word) . It really begs the question .
One common response I gather is the "drive " , the "Teutonic feel " . In the land of the Autobahn , I have never seen a BMW with a cc less than 2500 . The BMW enthusiast there (yes, there are lots of them ) feel that it does not do the car justice with such a low cc , it compromises the driving experience . In short , what "driving experience" can one have with a struggling low capacity engine ?? ( I am discussing this from a purely technical and driving prospective only )
Perhaps a E90 2.5 cc is provides a better driving experience than a E60 2.0 cc ?


PS- I dun own Lexus shares - I have no agenda other than trying to better understand why so many SGreans have an almost passionate love for BMW . Hence I'm in a BMW Forum
I'm now in the Bay area - here in the US - Lexus reigns supreme . They outsold BMW by almost 30,000 cars last year . It is easy to see why . This is despite BMW extremely easy financing - one can drive off with a small down payment and a monthly lease of just US$299 .

eggz

no worries about low CC, BMWs are always more about going around corners than going straight. This is especially so in Singapore, there's lots of Sheer Driving Pleasure to be had even in 318s and 520s.

Folks in Europe are now just coming to realise how pointless those silly twin turbo V12 AMG cars are.


eggz

Lexi

I regret the choice of words . It was meant to be descriptive , not distinctive of any particular persons .
Unfortunately , in every other first world country I have been to , I've never seen a 520 or a 318 . That was not what BMWs are made to run on . It does not do the car justice . Period . I am (was ??) a die hard BMW enthusiast and have pushed the cars to the limit on the Autobahn , I know what I'm saying . So if one is buying the car for the driving experience , nothing less than a 2500 cc car will do .
Of course , if there are other reasons for buying the car e.g the shape ,the design, the little $2 flying propeller .. ..then I stand corrected .

BTW, I understand that the term was coined by some PML sales person

tategoi