545i Vs 535d
03-28-2006, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Georgos' post='261332' date='Mar 28 2006, 09:12 AM
Dear w8pmc,
First of all i dont own an M3 anymore. I have an E61 as you can see.
Second of all, i have been racing bmw's (circuit and street) for about 10 years now so i do know what they are capable of. And if someone says that he beat an M3 CSL with his 535d (remapped or not) it can certainly happen but only due to circumstances like driver, first person on the gas or car condition. If both cars would have equal drivers and make a 0-200 kph sprint or 80-165mph as u wish, the CSL would definitely win. No doublt. Get real, 360hp, 1380kg and a 0-100kph in 4.8sec.
First of all i dont own an M3 anymore. I have an E61 as you can see.
Second of all, i have been racing bmw's (circuit and street) for about 10 years now so i do know what they are capable of. And if someone says that he beat an M3 CSL with his 535d (remapped or not) it can certainly happen but only due to circumstances like driver, first person on the gas or car condition. If both cars would have equal drivers and make a 0-200 kph sprint or 80-165mph as u wish, the CSL would definitely win. No doublt. Get real, 360hp, 1380kg and a 0-100kph in 4.8sec.
You attack the wrong person, i never said the DMS 535D could beat an M3 CSL but the poster said he has & i've never known a street race where one driver trys really hard & the other does not. Perhaps the 535D driver got the drop on the CSL & was in a better gear at 80MPH, but the point this does prove is that the differences are not vast. Anyhow my earlier comparison was with a standard M3, i've driven a CSL on track & i know they're awesome & o would certainly not try to keep up with one, but as said many times, in the real world things can turn out differently as i bet that particular CSL driver was kicking himself.
As said above, you can't argue with those numbers.
Still have an issue with the quote (not yours) that BMW understate their performance but DMS over state. How can this be true, where's the proof & have DMS stated they are being over generous??
Also, it is possible that the car being benchmarked is just a strong example. I've had a couple of cars that rolling roaded quite a few bhp higher than the manufacturers claims, so i guess they would also have been a little quicker to 60.
03-28-2006, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by 700700' post='261334' date='Mar 28 2006, 03:14 PM
you cant argue with those numbers 
The M3 is the ultimate e46 - a lightweight budget 'supercar' the 535d is a high speed executive cruiser. The M3 is 300kg lighter, 400mm shorter with a narrower wheelbase. In comparison the 535d is a BIG car.
The M3 really SHOULD have the edge and it is a HUGE complement to the handling of the e60 that there is any comparison at all.
These are the top gear lap times (flawed as they are the good point is that they are for the same circuit and driver):
BMW 535d - 1.31.8
BMW M3 - 1.31.8
M3 and the (unfettled) 535d are ...... the same .... (ok you'll all complain about rain conditions etc... but you have to admit it must be a close match).
BMW M3 CSL - 1.28.0
It's faster - but faster than a dms tuned 535d (dunno)
Now somewhere on this post it said that the 545i beat the 535d by 3 secs either way we don't know for sure cause they didn't do a stig power lap in the 545i.
BTW check out the Golf R32 time - 1.30.4 - faster than the M3 - flippin heck - I'm thinking of getting one.
03-28-2006, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by needforspeed' post='261346' date='Mar 28 2006, 05:43 PM
I believe the story about the CSL being beaten by a DMS fettled 535d. This was on a road not a track.
The M3 is the ultimate e46 - a lightweight budget 'supercar' the 535d is a high speed executive cruiser. The M3 is 300kg lighter, 400mm shorter with a narrower wheelbase. In comparison the 535d is a BIG car.
The M3 really SHOULD have the edge and it is a HUGE complement to the handling of the e60 that there is any comparison at all.
These are the top gear lap times (flawed as they are the good point is that they are for the same circuit and driver):
BMW 535d - 1.31.8
BMW M3 - 1.31.8
M3 and the (unfettled) 535d are ...... the same .... (ok you'll all complain about rain conditions etc... but you have to admit it must be a close match).
BMW M3 CSL - 1.28.0
It's faster - but faster than a dms tuned 535d (dunno)
Now somewhere on this post it said that the 545i beat the 535d by 3 secs either way we don't know for sure cause they didn't do a stig power lap in the 545i.
BTW check out the Golf R32 time - 1.30.4 - faster than the M3 - flippin heck - I'm thinking of getting one.
The M3 is the ultimate e46 - a lightweight budget 'supercar' the 535d is a high speed executive cruiser. The M3 is 300kg lighter, 400mm shorter with a narrower wheelbase. In comparison the 535d is a BIG car.
The M3 really SHOULD have the edge and it is a HUGE complement to the handling of the e60 that there is any comparison at all.
These are the top gear lap times (flawed as they are the good point is that they are for the same circuit and driver):
BMW 535d - 1.31.8
BMW M3 - 1.31.8
M3 and the (unfettled) 535d are ...... the same .... (ok you'll all complain about rain conditions etc... but you have to admit it must be a close match).
BMW M3 CSL - 1.28.0
It's faster - but faster than a dms tuned 535d (dunno)
Now somewhere on this post it said that the 545i beat the 535d by 3 secs either way we don't know for sure cause they didn't do a stig power lap in the 545i.
BTW check out the Golf R32 time - 1.30.4 - faster than the M3 - flippin heck - I'm thinking of getting one.
1. The laps in the m3 and 535d were done in DRY. I presume they got the same time because of the drivers. The driver that drove the e46 m3 was the black stig, wich had different approaches, lines and different driving style then the white stig (the one that drove the 535d). In the rest the conditions were the same.
2. The CSL lap time was in wet conditions and was driven by the new stig. (the white one).
3. The golf R32 was also driven by the white stig. They considered it as a dry lap although one can easily see that the track was a bit moistured when they tested it against the 130i.
So it's a bit strange to compare all those times since none of them were taken in the same conditions.
In the end, people, please stick to the topic.
03-28-2006, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' post='261349' date='Mar 28 2006, 03:50 PM
Let me clarify this:
1. The laps in the m3 and 535d were done in DRY. I presume they got the same time because of the drivers. The driver that drove the e46 m3 was the black stig, wich had different approaches, lines and different driving style then the white stig (the one that drove the 535d). In the rest the conditions were the same.
2. The CSL lap time was in wet conditions and was driven by the new stig. (the white one).
3. The golf R32 was also driven by the white stig. They considered it as a dry lap although one can easily see that the track was a bit moistured when they tested it against the 130i.
So it's a bit strange to compare all those times since none of them were taken in the same conditions.
In the end, people, please stick to the topic.
1. The laps in the m3 and 535d were done in DRY. I presume they got the same time because of the drivers. The driver that drove the e46 m3 was the black stig, wich had different approaches, lines and different driving style then the white stig (the one that drove the 535d). In the rest the conditions were the same.
2. The CSL lap time was in wet conditions and was driven by the new stig. (the white one).
3. The golf R32 was also driven by the white stig. They considered it as a dry lap although one can easily see that the track was a bit moistured when they tested it against the 130i.
So it's a bit strange to compare all those times since none of them were taken in the same conditions.
In the end, people, please stick to the topic.
What I read into all of this (on topic Better Make Way !) is that the 535d is a VERY quick car and is VERY comparable to the M3.
It seems to me that it is also likely to be VERY comparable to the 545i.
And I don't see a problem in pointing out the VERY impressive time for the r32 (even if it is a little VW).
03-28-2006, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by w8pmc' post='261231' date='Mar 28 2006, 07:18 AM
Well according again to BMW, the 550i can manage 0-100KMH in 5.6 seconds & the DMS 535D can do that in 5.5 secs. so care to expand on how a standard 545i can do this quicker that BMW state for a 550i
03-28-2006, 07:08 AM
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Well, I don't care a shit! It's BMW!! Better still, it's e60! 
Have You seen guys with 520d or 525i here doing what this thread has been?
I don't meant that You can't do this, but don't You see how futail this is. After all abuse everyone will still have they own opinnion.
Still I follow this.
Skaffa
Have You seen guys with 520d or 525i here doing what this thread has been?
I don't meant that You can't do this, but don't You see how futail this is. After all abuse everyone will still have they own opinnion.
Still I follow this.
Skaffa
03-28-2006, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by w8pmc' post='261178' date='Mar 28 2006, 12:23 PM
I doubt you saw a 545i vs 535D on Top gear, as the 545i is not available in the UK & never has been so why would a UK TV show test the car. I watch Top Gear religiously & can't recall such a test, although i do recall the 535D being tested a while back.
We have the 540i & the 550i with the 0-60 times for these cars being 6.3 for the 540 (the same as a standard 535D) & 5.6 for the 550i (0.1 sec more than a DMS 535D). So safe to say the difference between standard 545i & standard 535D is hardly going to be a country mile & whichever way you look at the cars, the torque from the 535D in standard form is higher than an M5 so much higher than 540i, 545i & 550i.
I cetainly don't think the 535D is the fastest or best car in the world & that's having traded into a 535D from a car MUCH faster than an E60 M5, but let's be sensible when comparing the 535D with it's petrol equivalents.
Agreed that an M3 will show a standard 535D a clean pair of heels & your competitor was a little stupid to think otherwise, however i'd happily take such a race/chance, as i know my car has a fighting chance although i believe the M3 would still have the edge but it's only a slight edge. On a track, the M3 would of course win by a reasonable margin.
We have the 540i & the 550i with the 0-60 times for these cars being 6.3 for the 540 (the same as a standard 535D) & 5.6 for the 550i (0.1 sec more than a DMS 535D). So safe to say the difference between standard 545i & standard 535D is hardly going to be a country mile & whichever way you look at the cars, the torque from the 535D in standard form is higher than an M5 so much higher than 540i, 545i & 550i.
I cetainly don't think the 535D is the fastest or best car in the world & that's having traded into a 535D from a car MUCH faster than an E60 M5, but let's be sensible when comparing the 535D with it's petrol equivalents.
Agreed that an M3 will show a standard 535D a clean pair of heels & your competitor was a little stupid to think otherwise, however i'd happily take such a race/chance, as i know my car has a fighting chance although i believe the M3 would still have the edge but it's only a slight edge. On a track, the M3 would of course win by a reasonable margin.
what you talking about? i'm here right? 545i/550i def' available in the UK. plus mine has DMS treatment too.
03-28-2006, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Znod' post='261390' date='Mar 28 2006, 10:55 AM
Check out post #65 on this thread. Also, see grogan545's results in post #1 of this thread.
.....................................Both.Steptron ics
..................................535d........Znod--Best 5 Avg.*
0-40 km/h.....................2.0...............1.317
0-60 km/h.....................3.5...............2.545
8-80 km/h.....................5.0...............3.805
0-100 km/h...................7.1...............5.369
0-120 km/h...................9.5...............7.271
0-140 km/h.................12.4...............9.318
0-160 km/h.................16.4..............11.960
1' rollout; adjusted for 25% weather and altitude to 500'. Magazine test procedures and conditions unknown.
03-28-2006, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by JayEll' post='261401' date='Mar 28 2006, 05:24 PM
what you talking about? i'm here right? 545i/550i def' available in the UK. plus mine has DMS treatment too.
545 "WAS" available in the UK... replaced with 550i.
but don't knwo WHERE you get that BMW haven't sold 545i's for 2 years in the UK. Bizarre quote!
i'm in no doubt that a 535D is quick, and that a remapped 535D would keep up with, maybe even beat a 545 marginally..
for me the diff in the cars is in the drivers preference. i wanted an engine that sounded nice, and revved past 5k. i wanted the M, but wife won't drive anything but autos. so 545 was the choice at the time.
B5 would be my choice now however!
i reckon a DMS545 would take the DMS535D however... but i think all would be close. v close.
03-28-2006, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by JayEll' post='261401' date='Mar 28 2006, 11:24 AM
what you talking about? i'm here right? 545i/550i def' available in the UK. plus mine has DMS treatment too.