znod

Let go of a tiger by the tail. Never. Then, it might be able to bite me. Thanks. Yes, I'm a diesel lover too. Great mileage and all.

clived

I don't know, I leave you boys alone for a few months and all hell breaks loose :-)

I didn't think I'd get to say this again, but it's a real shame that no 545i owner was willing to step up to the plate when I organised the E60 trip to Santa Pod - and ran a 13.8 1/4 mile, without any special prep, far more fuel than I really should have had on board for a 1/4 mile run and only a couple of runs to try to perfect it - which I'm sure I didn't.

Comparing magazine test results, run on different days, on different surfaces, with different drivers, is, in my view, pointless. Take two cars, run them side by side... that's the only way to get a meaningful result. Ditto everyone using any sort of inertial based peformance meter as these are never going to be as accurate as crosing the beams, and certainly any results that are "corrected" - as you don't know if the results you are comparing against have been similarly corrected. If Santa Pod is 1000ft above sea level and the weather was not perfect, what would my "corrected" 1/4 mile time be?

In short.... lets not argue, none of us can prove anything with scraps of data from all over the place. Why not try to get some cars together at Santa Pod (or your local 1/4 mile drag strip where E60 diesels are available) and do some empirical tests. I *think* we'd see a well launched remapped 535d beating a 545i over 1/8 mile thanks to the torque, and then the 545i catching and maybe overhauling the 535d on the 2nd half of the run.... but it would be close.

(I only came back as I'm in a 330d for a couple of days whilst the bumper on my 480bhp RS4 is resprayed and realising it isn't a patch on my 535d, I felt all nostalgic. Of course, I *really* don't care which is quicker, I'd toast you all )

znod

Short of going to the strip or doing streeties, empirically derived, and to some extent noncomparable data, are about all we have to go on in trying to compare performance. In this regard, preponderance of evidence generally can lead to the proper conclusion. All beams are not created equal and all dragstrips are not level, nor are they all flat. Correcting data is the only way to attempt meaningful comparisons. We (grogan545 and I) know what the US mags do in terms of weather and altitude adjustments and testing methods. We adjust for weather similarly to, and probably better than, what 2 of the 3 US mags do. We adjust to a very conservative altitude of 500'--feeling confident that the vast majority of the tests we would compare to are conducted at higher and unadjusted altitudes. Finally, we use the same sorts of test procedures that are used by the US mags--including a 1' rollout and using aggressive, but non-abusive, procedures. I do not know what the German mags do on any dimension. I have attempted to get some German speakers to find out, but to no avail. Of course, we know that our data are not perfect even given our best attempts at making things as comparable as possible. We are not naive. Please see these threads--thread 1 and thread 2.

to you too. Welcome back.

Evenflow545

Look. I'm settling this right now, Southern United States style.

One or all of you European fellers get in your damn cars and get over here, and I'll race your gosh darn turbo diesel contraption or whatever the the hell that 535 thing is you're driving, against my 545, down Highway 7 from Harrison to Hot Springs, Arkansas.

I may have to stop for gas; take a shit; and get some mints along the way, but that'll just make it an even race.

You can get out at Jasper, Arkansas to stretch your feet and say to the locals: "Das good, mon. Me 535er is pooling boooooooocccooooos amounts of torqueage along yer twisty roads, Yank." "Even considering the fact that I have on a Swiss cheese helmet. Go Packers."

Then, I'll buy y'all a drink when you finally get to the Arlington Hotel.

Evenflow545

Evenflow falls down, and does not get up.

EBMCS03

Evenflow gets ran over by a 535d

needforspeed

I appreciate all the work you have gone to here znod, but personally (and I have no axe to grind) I think you have ended up with a bit of a 'messy' position.

You seem to be setting out to demonstrate a definitive position, but in doing so you are having to 'pick and choose' between which test you believe and which you don't.

It seems to me that, if you have to do this, there cannot be a massive straight line performance difference (at least in the real world) between the 2 cars.

You've posted some magazine test data, which suggests that there is 0.2 secs between the 535d and the 545i on the 0-60mph sprint. Then posted some faster times for the 545i (which you have searched out given your particular interest in this model). Equally - there might be faster times for the 535d out there, which would be found if you looked (interestingly the 545i test date you LIKE is american and they will not have equivalent data for the diesel - so direct comparison is not possible.

It's also pretty much accepted that there are differences between cars of the same model (one 545i might have marginally more torque than another).........

In the end we are back where we started - the 545i is probably a fraction quicker in a straight line - but how much is still going to be hard to prove. I've seen the effort you've gone to in understanding the performance of your own car and know you understand the problem.

It still seems to me that the cars are evenly matched and around a track, the winner is going to be determined as much my driver ability and the way the track matches up to the cars power curve as by the choice of model.

As I have said before I don't really care which is quicker (if I had to place a bet it would go on the 545i), but all these statements which dismiss the 535d out of hand frustrate me as they seem to be based on either preconceptions or an 'it is cause I say it is' philosophy.

needforspeed

OK - I didn't know that the 535d was only available with steptronic.

Should I be upset or embarrassed by this ? - (I'm not).

Does the fact that you did know this impress me ? - (no).

Does pointing this out in any way answer the question I put to znod ? - (no).

0700700

in response to your post. I said that you dont know what transmission is on the 535d. So i am unsure as to who confused models?


and questions you put to znod, are to be answered to him. i have not tried, nor want to answer questions not directed towards myself

needforspeed

Fair enough - I didn't know the 535d was only in step - and now I do so thanks

Now we are quits... what shall we argue about next ?