colejl

Indeed... I never looked at the crash results when I bought the car - I just assumed it would be safe

I was never told anything different, no promises... However, I would still like to know the impact, both financially and in safety terms! BMW will never come clean unless there's lots of leaking into the Public Domain

I think I'll forward this forum link to AutoExpress

530E60NL

I called BMW netherlands to adresse my concern. The man at the phone told me that the euro ncap results can differ between models and bmw is sure this car is safe for their standard. I then asked him why BMW changed it after the NCAP results were so bad and he couldn't give me an answer!

He told me I would be called back by a manager to talk about this issue and I told him I want the new safety issues on my car too so I am sure I have the best of the best when I get into an accident.

Will keep you guys posted on this..

Iceman

Here is the video (I had to change the format to *.wmv, because I wasn't able to upload *.mpeg's - anyways, on my PC it works, so I hope on yours too...):

bmw_5er2004.wmv

EBMCS03

Yikes! Hard crash...

Shredder

Hmmm... My 1972 2002Tii was a pretty safe car. It's simplicity meant far less to go wrong in the event of an accident. None of the fancy CBC, EBV, ABS, DSC, PDC, DTC or DBC to "help". Also, most 2002Tii drivers would typically find themselves in a higher state of alertness due to increased adrenelin levels; especially under hard cornering when many accidents can happen. If I remember rightly, I also found the loud road noise more likely to keep me awake than in my E60 (and the radio was terrible), so again, far safer than our modern gadget-loaded comfort zones.

skaffa

Just like my -78 RS2000.

Skaffa

kscarrol

Great video Iceman! I'm still curious as this seems to be the same offset frontal crash test that earned the E60 a "Best Pick" designation here in the states. Is this the test that the car did so poorly on for EuroNCAP? And what about the results were so poor? Does NCAP have different standards for crash results?

Gizmo

Let me say this: If an E60 driver is involved in a collision where there is loss of life or serious injury, you can bet that a good personal injury firm will be all over this issue. It wont matter that a US firm gave it "Best Pick" status, when another appears to have discovered flaws prompting BMW to make structural changes to the vehicle.

Lets say you go to two doctors for a check-up and one tells you that you are the picture of health, while the other discovers that you (and very likely your family or coworkers) have been exposed to a lethal though treatable pathogen, would you take the first doctors bill of clean health? Of course not, you would get your a$$ over to the pharmacist and take your antibiotics. You SHOULD inform your family, friends, and coworkers of their likely exposure such that they may avoid a potentially lethal though preventable disease.

If BMW was informed of deficiencies in their vehicle, and corrected them for the purposes of corporate gain, yet withheld this information from its customers and thereby exposed them to unnecessasry risk - there will be legal ramifications I am sure.

kscarrol

Let me say this: If an E60 driver is involved in a collision where there is loss of life or serious injury, you can bet that a good personal injury firm will be all over this issue. It wont matter that a US firm gave it "Best Pick" status, when another appears to have discovered flaws prompting BMW to make structural changes to the vehicle.

Lets say you go to two doctors for a check-up and one tells you that you are the picture of health, while the other discovers that you (and very likely your family or coworkers) have been exposed to a lethal though treatable pathogen, would you take the first doctors bill of clean health? Of course not, you would get your a$$ over to the pharmacist and take your antibiotics. You SHOULD inform your family, friends, and coworkers of their likely exposure such that they may avoid a potentially lethal though preventable disease.

If BMW was informed of deficiencies in their vehicle, and corrected them for the purposes of corporate gain, yet withheld this information from its customers and thereby exposed them to unnecessasry risk - there will be legal ramifications I am sure.
[/quote]

All very true Gizmo, but what no one seems to have any info on I can find is whether it is truly some sort of design flaw that the EuroNCAP people have found or whether they simplt have more stringent standards for their testing, causing only 3 stars on the first test and 4 on the second. Until this question is answered, we are all in limbo.

Shredder

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Sent: 25 November 2004
To: customer.service@bmw.co.uk
Subject: BMW 5-Series Euro NCAP Results

Dear BMW UK,

I own a September 2003 BMW 530d SE Saloon (E60 model).

I am EXTREMELY concerned about the safety of my car having seen the report by Euro NCAP below.

BMW 5-Series Euro NCAP Results
http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_rat...p?id1=6&id2=208

It achieved a four-star rating after Euro NCAP allowed frontal, side and pole retests following improvements to the car's steering column, footrest, door trim, door latch, airbags and software


The section in bold above suggests there were many safety-related changes to the "steering column, footrest, door trim, door latch, airbags and software".

WHAT ABOUT MY CAR THAT DOES NOT HAVE THESE CHANGES?

Is my car safe (i.e. 4-star safe) for my family and I?

What PRECISELY were the changes made for the NCAP retests?

Can the same changes be made to my car to make it safer?

I was involved in a serious accident a few months ago (driving an Audi) and specifically want piece of mind that my BMW 530d SE is *VERY* safe.

Please provide a proper response to this important question.

Yours faithfully.

<>

------------------------------------------

A REPLY FROM BMW TODAY:

From: customer.service@bmw.co.uk
Sent: 30 November 2004
To: << >>
Subject: BMW 5-Series Euro NCAP Results

Dear Mr xxxx

Thank you for your e-mail communication dated 25th November with regard to the recent Euro NCAP results for the BMW 5 Series.

In response to your comments, we must emphasise that the BMW 5 Series is at the very highest level according to the BMW safety philosophy. Without wanting to question the results of the Euro NCAP in any way, it is important for BMW to design it's vehicles for real accident conditions in addition to those of a laboratory test (Euro NCAP) that demonstrably occur extremely rarely. The BMW 5 Series is designed to provide its occupants with a substantial level of protection and increased chance of survival in serious accident situations. It is thus not our uppermost priority to gain five stars in the Euro NCAP at all costs however, a four star Euro NCAP rating still remains, a very good result.

Fundamentally speaking, the new BMW 5 Series is still an exceptionally safe vehicle. Under the Euro NCAP conditions, the BMW 5 Series achieved a maximum point score with regard to head protection due to its perfect airbag settings.

In closing, we trust that the above helps to clarify our standpoint on the issue and reassures you as to the level of safety provided by the BMW 5 Series. We are fully confident in the level of safety that the BMW 5 Series provides to its occupants and we thank you for taking the time to contact BMW Customer Services.

Kind regards
<< >>
Customer Service Executive

---------------------------------------------------

MY RESPONSE:

From: << >>
Sent: 30 November 2004 12:17
To: 'customer.service@bmw.co.uk'
Subject: RE: BMW 5-Series Euro NCAP Results

Dear Mr << >>,

Thank you for your reply.

UNFORTUNATELY, I AM NOT AT ALL SATISFIED WITH YOUR RESPONSE.

You have not answered my questions that I asked both in my email below and when I telephoned BMW Customer Information Service dept on Friday 26th November.

Here are my questions again:

<<
BMW 5-Series Euro NCAP Results
http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_rat...p?id1=6&id2=208

It achieved a four-star rating after Euro NCAP allowed frontal, side and pole retests following improvements to the car's steering column, footrest, door trim, door latch, airbags and software


The section in bold above suggests there were many safety-related changes to the "steering column, footrest, door trim, door latch, airbags and software".

WHAT ABOUT MY CAR THAT DOES NOT HAVE THESE CHANGES?

Is my car safe (i.e. 4-star safe) for my family and I?

What PRECISELY were the changes made for the NCAP retests?

Can the same changes be made to my car to make it safer?

>>

In the above:
It achieved a four-star rating after Euro NCAP allowed frontal, side and pole retests following improvements to the car's steering column, footrest, door trim, door latch, airbags and software

The key word above is ?after?. i.e. after BMW made safety-related changes in order to achieve a four-star rating. It is clear that without these changes, the car failed to achieve a four star rating.

Since BMW made the changes, BMW will know exactly WHY these changes were made and precisely WHAT was changed.

So [as my email], I asked:
<< What PRECISELY were the changes made for the NCAP retests? >>

<< Can the same changes be made to my car to make it safer? >>

I insist that you answer these questions in a proper way.

In your response, you wrote:<< Under the Euro NCAP conditions, the BMW 5 Series achieved a maximum point score with regard to head protection due to its perfect airbag settings. >>

?Improvements to airbags? was one of the improvements [as above] that BMW were allowed to make before the NCAP retests and subsequent four-star rating. Why would the airbags on my 2003 BMW 530d NOT also need the same improvements as BMW made to the test car?

Consider this?

If my 2003 BMW 530d is involved in an accident and there are injuries to me, my family or anyone else as a result of my car NOT incorporating the changes BMW made during the Euro NCAP testing (i.e. BMW clearly KNOWS there are safety issues that would prevent a four-star NCAP rating for my car), I would imagine the legal, ethical and publicity implications for BMW could be very serious.

Once you have emailed a proper official response to my questions, as I mentioned on the telephone last Friday, I will then be asking you to WRITE to me with the same official response.

As an ethical company, I trust BMW will be able to answer my safety-related concerns with absolute integrity, honesty and openness.

Yours sincerely,
<< >>

----------------------------------------------------

I'll keep you posted with any replies.
Nev