EURO NCAP Crash Test Results for E60
11-30-2004, 03:10 PM
#101
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Originally Posted by Gizmo' date='Dec 1 2004, 01:05 AM
The fundamental issue here is that BMW found it necessary to re-engineer the E60 in order to achieve better safety marks, yet is not informing their customers of potentially fatal flaws in their vehicles. This could be construed as deceptive and misleading, and may open them to liability in the event of personal injury occuring in this vehicle.
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11-30-2004, 03:30 PM
#102
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Originally Posted by Gizmo' date='Nov 30 2004, 07:05 PM
[quote name='kscarrol' date='Nov 30 2004, 04:34 PM']Easy Iceman, I'm not supporting BMW on this, but there are a lot of very emotional comments flying around without much hard fact behind them.? Again, does 3 stars mean failure or merely acceptable. "It means BMW made a step backwards, because the E39 received 4 Stars." does not answer my question.? Now I agree that mearly acceptable is not what BMW is noted for and that will anger buyers, but it doesn't neccesarily mean the car is unsafe.? That is my only point.? Definitely not up to the usual standards, but not unsafe.? There is a big difference, especially in terms of trying to get some form of compensation/retrofit or new car out of this.?
And since I can see the direction this thread is headed, I will refrain from sticking my sticking my nose in? any further and simply watch with great interest from afar.
And since I can see the direction this thread is headed, I will refrain from sticking my sticking my nose in? any further and simply watch with great interest from afar.
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The fundamental issue here is that BMW found it necessary to re-engineer the E60 in order to achieve better safety marks, yet is not informing their customers of potentially fatal flaws in their vehicles. This could be construed as deceptive and misleading, and may open them to liability in the event of personal injury occuring in this vehicle.
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[/quote]As I posted the other day, making modifications by BMW or other manufacturers is not new to euro NCAP. Our beloved E39 had safety belt, added footwell welding and air bag mods perhaps to enable the 4 star rating even then! Did BMW slip on safety from e39 to e60 - I'm not sure you can say that. What the link does show is that they enabled mods in the production of the e39 and made that known to prospective buyers and owners and they should be equally forthright with us on this model.
click,click http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_rat...hp?id1=4&id2=49
11-30-2004, 03:32 PM
#103
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Originally Posted by Guest' date='Nov 30 2004, 08:30 PM
[quote name='Gizmo' date='Nov 30 2004, 07:05 PM'][quote name='kscarrol' date='Nov 30 2004, 04:34 PM']Easy Iceman, I'm not supporting BMW on this, but there are a lot of very emotional comments flying around without much hard fact behind them.? Again, does 3 stars mean failure or merely acceptable. "It means BMW made a step backwards, because the E39 received 4 Stars." does not answer my question.? Now I agree that mearly acceptable is not what BMW is noted for and that will anger buyers, but it doesn't neccesarily mean the car is unsafe.? That is my only point.? Definitely not up to the usual standards, but not unsafe.? There is a big difference, especially in terms of trying to get some form of compensation/retrofit or new car out of this.?
And since I can see the direction this thread is headed, I will refrain from sticking my sticking my nose in? any further and simply watch with great interest from afar.
And since I can see the direction this thread is headed, I will refrain from sticking my sticking my nose in? any further and simply watch with great interest from afar.
[snapback]62641[/snapback]
The fundamental issue here is that BMW found it necessary to re-engineer the E60 in order to achieve better safety marks, yet is not informing their customers of potentially fatal flaws in their vehicles. This could be construed as deceptive and misleading, and may open them to liability in the event of personal injury occuring in this vehicle.
[snapback]62680[/snapback]
[/quote]As I posted the other day, making modifications by BMW or other manufacturers is not new to euro NCAP. Our beloved E39 had safety belt, added footwell welding and air bag mods perhaps to enable the 4 star rating even then! Did BMW slip on safety from e39 to e60 - I'm not sure you can say that. What the link does show is that they enabled mods in the production of the e39 and made that known to prospective buyers and owners and they should be equally forthright with us on this model.
click,click http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_rat...hp?id1=4&id2=49
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[/quote]sorry that was me...forgot to log in Mihusky
11-30-2004, 04:52 PM
#104
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I said I'd stay away, but I can't pass up Gizmo's comment. I agree that a "C" or average is below BMW's usual standard, but please identify for me the potentially "fatal flaw". Especially vs. what saftey rating BMW had advertised for this model, which was none! Again I am not disputing that the 3 star or average rating is well below BMW standards or at least what we as buyers expect from BMW, but unless, as I have mention several times, there is a specific potentially "fatal" flaw can be ID'd, I don't view the 3 star as a failure, simply an "acceptably safe" rating, but not one of the top performers. If the car had failed the test and recieved 1 star but was modified to get a passing grade, then there would grounds for some fix/compensation. You guys keep equating my remarks as trying to justify BMW's actions. I AM NOT! Go look at my first post in this thread. I said I expect BMW to handle it as well as they have handled everything else I seen/experienced, from the NAV/Sirius non-compativility issue to the Bluetooth fiasco.
Sometimes people only focus on the bad. For the guys in Europe, the EuroNCAP has been their standard. For me in the US, we have out Insurance Institute that fills the same role. My car got a Best Pick, just as I would have expected. Until some specific saftey issue is identified, like the poor Pinto gas tank, I'm very comfortable with my purchase and have no problem driving me and my family in the car. No one has stepped up and explained whether OR how the the two tests compare/differ, whether we're comparing apple and oranges. Until then I'll keep enjoying my car
As for Mihusky's comment, I am not familiar w/ the earlier model E39 modifications. Or other makers who have done the same, at least that's what Mihusky implies. Did BMW or the other makers compensate early buyers who's cars did not have the modifications?
I'm done. See you guys in a friendlier thread...
Sometimes people only focus on the bad. For the guys in Europe, the EuroNCAP has been their standard. For me in the US, we have out Insurance Institute that fills the same role. My car got a Best Pick, just as I would have expected. Until some specific saftey issue is identified, like the poor Pinto gas tank, I'm very comfortable with my purchase and have no problem driving me and my family in the car. No one has stepped up and explained whether OR how the the two tests compare/differ, whether we're comparing apple and oranges. Until then I'll keep enjoying my car
As for Mihusky's comment, I am not familiar w/ the earlier model E39 modifications. Or other makers who have done the same, at least that's what Mihusky implies. Did BMW or the other makers compensate early buyers who's cars did not have the modifications?
I'm done. See you guys in a friendlier thread...
11-30-2004, 08:24 PM
#106
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Originally Posted by kscarrol' date='Nov 30 2004, 07:52 PM
I said I'd stay away, but I can't pass up Gizmo's comment.?
I'm done.? See you guys in a friendlier thread...
I'm done.? See you guys in a friendlier thread...
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Where we differ I think is on the perspective one takes on the events occuring AFTER INITIAL NCAP testing. If the E60 is such a safe car as you contend, why did BMW find it necessary to re-engineer portions of the vehicle? The safety data is now based on a re-engineered vehicle, yet many owners are not currently driving these modified vehicles, rather, they are cruising around in the vehicles BMW felt necessary to modify... This should at least give you some pause as you buckle-up and clear out the iDrive disclaimer...
As usual, an ounce of disclosure by BMW would save pounds of speculation here ...
11-30-2004, 09:24 PM
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Here is a link to the 1998 5-series NCAP test. They also re-tested after a bad result!
http://www.euroncap.com/details.php3...w_5series_1998
I am also bothered by the contradictory results between NCAP and IIHS. Both agencies cannot be correct. Is BMW also "re-testing" for the IIHS and the IIHS is just not telling us? (If so, the IIHS is misleading us.) Do other cars re-test?
Anyone know if these organizations often give contradictory ratings?
http://www.euroncap.com/details.php3...w_5series_1998
I am also bothered by the contradictory results between NCAP and IIHS. Both agencies cannot be correct. Is BMW also "re-testing" for the IIHS and the IIHS is just not telling us? (If so, the IIHS is misleading us.) Do other cars re-test?
Anyone know if these organizations often give contradictory ratings?
11-30-2004, 11:18 PM
#108
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Please people don't spoile your enjoy about e60 by speculating with thing we don't know enough. 
I like to know what is behind all this, before I start to scream.
Best safety feature is still in our shoulders. Have You ever seen Euro NCAP test for Ferrari or Lambo or...
Skaffa
I like to know what is behind all this, before I start to scream.
Best safety feature is still in our shoulders. Have You ever seen Euro NCAP test for Ferrari or Lambo or...
Skaffa
12-01-2004, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by zippers525' date='Dec 1 2004, 03:52 AM
Is there any way to get the original test data. (ie. the video and data report on the cars reaction before the modification?)
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12-01-2004, 02:15 AM
#110
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Ok I received a reply from BMW UK. Here it is....be interested to hear the comments on this from other e60.net members. so far I have not replied to BMWUK.
Thank you for your e-mail communication dated 25 November with regard to the recent Euro NCAP results for the BMW 5 Series.
In response to your comments, we must emphasise that the BMW 5 Series is at the very highest level according to the BMW safety philosophy. Without wanting to question the results of the Euro NCAP in any way, it is important for BMW to design it's vehicles for real accident conditions in addition to those of a laboratory test (Euro NCAP) that demonstrably occur extremely rarely. The BMW 5 Series is designed to provide its occupants with a substantial level of protection and increased chance of survival in serious accident situations. It is thus not our uppermost priority to gain five stars in the Euro NCAP at all costs however, a four star Euro NCAP rating still remains, a very good result.
Fundamentally speaking, the new BMW 5 Series is still an exceptionally safe vehicle. Under the Euro NCAP conditions, the BMW 5 Series achieved a maximum point score with regard to head protection due to its perfect airbag settings.
In closing, we trust that the above helps to clarify our standpoint on the issue and reassures you as to the level of safety provided by the BMW 5 Series. We are fully confident in the level of safety that the BMW 5 Series provides to its occupants and we thank you for taking the time to contact BMW Customer Services.
Kind regards
<name removed to protect the innocent>
Customer Service Executive
In response to your comments, we must emphasise that the BMW 5 Series is at the very highest level according to the BMW safety philosophy. Without wanting to question the results of the Euro NCAP in any way, it is important for BMW to design it's vehicles for real accident conditions in addition to those of a laboratory test (Euro NCAP) that demonstrably occur extremely rarely. The BMW 5 Series is designed to provide its occupants with a substantial level of protection and increased chance of survival in serious accident situations. It is thus not our uppermost priority to gain five stars in the Euro NCAP at all costs however, a four star Euro NCAP rating still remains, a very good result.
Fundamentally speaking, the new BMW 5 Series is still an exceptionally safe vehicle. Under the Euro NCAP conditions, the BMW 5 Series achieved a maximum point score with regard to head protection due to its perfect airbag settings.
In closing, we trust that the above helps to clarify our standpoint on the issue and reassures you as to the level of safety provided by the BMW 5 Series. We are fully confident in the level of safety that the BMW 5 Series provides to its occupants and we thank you for taking the time to contact BMW Customer Services.
Kind regards
<name removed to protect the innocent>
Customer Service Executive