EURO NCAP Crash Test Results for E60
11-30-2004, 09:31 AM
#91
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I just want to chime in that this is very discomforting
The original test car ONLY achieved a poor 3 star rating.
The modified car ONLY achieved a 4 star rating.
ALL OTHER cars in the executive class later than model year 2002 achieved a 5 star rating.
best
Mats
The original test car ONLY achieved a poor 3 star rating.
The modified car ONLY achieved a 4 star rating.
ALL OTHER cars in the executive class later than model year 2002 achieved a 5 star rating.
best
Mats
11-30-2004, 11:29 AM
#92
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I am also highly concerned about this situation. So much so that I have decided not to go ahead with my 535d order until this situation is cleared. I have also sent an email to BMW and I hope that they will come back with a more specific response than the one sent to Nev. It is completely unacceptable for BMW to come back with such a generic answer. They have themselves acknowledged the shortcomings of the E60 and the importance of Euro NCAP by implementing many significant changes to achieve a better result....
I believe that there could definitely be ground for legal action if BMW doesn't make things right for current owners....
I believe that there could definitely be ground for legal action if BMW doesn't make things right for current owners....
11-30-2004, 11:47 AM
#93
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I called BMW Munich today and I don't think they are thinking about ANY recall.
Anyways, they asked me to write a letter and then they will respond... Well, I see the response Nev got in the UK. You can clearly see from that response, that BMW is hiding something! They are NOT AT ALL honest and even have prepared standard answers for this/our concern!
I will do what they requested, I'll send them a letter, but at the same time I'll give it to my lawyer!
I love BMW, but I love my safety more than the car.
If they are not willing to talk to me/us, it is time to return the car and buy something else.
Anyways, they asked me to write a letter and then they will respond... Well, I see the response Nev got in the UK. You can clearly see from that response, that BMW is hiding something! They are NOT AT ALL honest and even have prepared standard answers for this/our concern!
I will do what they requested, I'll send them a letter, but at the same time I'll give it to my lawyer!
I love BMW, but I love my safety more than the car.
If they are not willing to talk to me/us, it is time to return the car and buy something else.
11-30-2004, 11:50 AM
#94
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BTW, that video is the second test, in which the 5series received 4stars.
I could live with that, since it looks OK to me, but when you look at how much the steering wheel moved in this crash, and you know that this was allready modified before the test... I don't want to find out the hard way what happens to mine when I crash.
I could live with that, since it looks OK to me, but when you look at how much the steering wheel moved in this crash, and you know that this was allready modified before the test... I don't want to find out the hard way what happens to mine when I crash.
11-30-2004, 12:20 PM
#95
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Again, I'd love to know how that European standards differ from the those here in the US, because I find it hard to believe that one agency finds the car a Best Pick while the other only gives it 3 stars. And what does the 3 stars really mean. Not trying to stir the pot, but is 3 stars failing, substandard, acceptable? As opposed to 4 stars being good and 5 stars superior?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not backing BMW on this one, but I think my original point is still valid. If the test found a real design flaw, like the steering column breaks loose on impact, hitting the driver causing injury, then BMW has a real problem on its hands. If the issue is that the E60 only got 3 stars instead of BMW's usual 4-5 stars, I don't see where folks much of a legal leg to stand on. Maybe if the car only got 1 or 2 stars, basically failing the test, but that goes back to my question above, what do the 3 stars mean? BMW may lose some loyal customers, but they have not done nothing illegal or fraudulent by not getting the usual 4-5 stars.
What we really need is detail on what caused the 3 star performance and if that was something really dangerous or did BMW feel the need to get that 4th star so they made some minor changes. Don't jump on me, I'm just playing devil's advocate. I have not seen any detail, nor apparently has anyone else (and that is also part of the issue!) on what the changes were.
Just my opinion, but my background is in finance, not law.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not backing BMW on this one, but I think my original point is still valid. If the test found a real design flaw, like the steering column breaks loose on impact, hitting the driver causing injury, then BMW has a real problem on its hands. If the issue is that the E60 only got 3 stars instead of BMW's usual 4-5 stars, I don't see where folks much of a legal leg to stand on. Maybe if the car only got 1 or 2 stars, basically failing the test, but that goes back to my question above, what do the 3 stars mean? BMW may lose some loyal customers, but they have not done nothing illegal or fraudulent by not getting the usual 4-5 stars.
What we really need is detail on what caused the 3 star performance and if that was something really dangerous or did BMW feel the need to get that 4th star so they made some minor changes. Don't jump on me, I'm just playing devil's advocate. I have not seen any detail, nor apparently has anyone else (and that is also part of the issue!) on what the changes were.
Just my opinion, but my background is in finance, not law.
11-30-2004, 01:12 PM
#96
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They explain their procedures on their website.
It means BMW made a step backwards, because the E39 received 4 Stars.
And when you buy a car like the 5series you can expect it to be as safe as the previous model, if not even safer!
Well, IMHO the test has found such a design flaw.
If not, why would the guys at BMW the redesign it?
Again, this is from the EuroNCAP website about the 5series crashtest:
...after Euro NCAP allowed frontal, side and pole retests following improvements to the car?s steering column, footrest, door trim, door latch, airbags and software...
Software and Airbags are minor things... Footrest, DOOR trim, door latch and STEERING WHEEL COLOUMN are not so minor.
In the second crash test, in which the E60 received four stars, the steering wheel moved 14mm to the left (RHD !!!). And that AFTER is has been modified!
I think we ARE talking about a design flaw.
And what does the 3 stars really mean.
And when you buy a car like the 5series you can expect it to be as safe as the previous model, if not even safer!
If the test found a real design flaw, like the steering column breaks loose on impact, hitting the driver causing injury, then BMW has a real problem on its hands.
If not, why would the guys at BMW the redesign it?
Again, this is from the EuroNCAP website about the 5series crashtest:
...after Euro NCAP allowed frontal, side and pole retests following improvements to the car?s steering column, footrest, door trim, door latch, airbags and software...
Software and Airbags are minor things... Footrest, DOOR trim, door latch and STEERING WHEEL COLOUMN are not so minor.
In the second crash test, in which the E60 received four stars, the steering wheel moved 14mm to the left (RHD !!!). And that AFTER is has been modified!
I think we ARE talking about a design flaw.
11-30-2004, 01:34 PM
#97
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Easy Iceman, I'm not supporting BMW on this, but there are a lot of very emotional comments flying around without much hard fact behind them. Again, does 3 stars mean failure or merely acceptable. "It means BMW made a step backwards, because the E39 received 4 Stars." does not answer my question. Now I agree that mearly acceptable is not what BMW is noted for and that will anger buyers, but it doesn't neccesarily mean the car is unsafe. That is my only point. Definitely not up to the usual standards, but not unsafe. There is a big difference, especially in terms of trying to get some form of compensation/retrofit or new car out of this.
And since I can see the direction this thread is headed, I will refrain from sticking my sticking my nose in any further and simply watch with great interest from afar.
And since I can see the direction this thread is headed, I will refrain from sticking my sticking my nose in any further and simply watch with great interest from afar.
11-30-2004, 02:23 PM
#99
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Originally Posted by DR.Z' date='Nov 30 2004, 11:53 PM
Was the three star tested car equiped with Active Steering ?
DR.Z
DR.Z
[snapback]62647[/snapback]
Source: Euro NCAP - Frequently Asked Questions #8
http://www.euroncap.com/content/faqs/faqs.php
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>Why are some cars tested with certain safety features when others are not?
Euro NCAP policy is to test the best selling version of a car model with the safety features which it has as standard in all 15 EU member states or those member states into which the best selling version of the car is sold. If a manufacturer has optional equipment which is important for safety, they are allowed to pay for an additional test with the optional equipment. When rating the car Euro NCAP use the scores obtained by the 'standard' car in the tests.</span>
11-30-2004, 03:05 PM
#100
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Originally Posted by kscarrol' date='Nov 30 2004, 04:34 PM
Easy Iceman, I'm not supporting BMW on this, but there are a lot of very emotional comments flying around without much hard fact behind them.? Again, does 3 stars mean failure or merely acceptable. "It means BMW made a step backwards, because the E39 received 4 Stars." does not answer my question.? Now I agree that mearly acceptable is not what BMW is noted for and that will anger buyers, but it doesn't neccesarily mean the car is unsafe.? That is my only point.? Definitely not up to the usual standards, but not unsafe.? There is a big difference, especially in terms of trying to get some form of compensation/retrofit or new car out of this.?
And since I can see the direction this thread is headed, I will refrain from sticking my sticking my nose in? any further and simply watch with great interest from afar.
And since I can see the direction this thread is headed, I will refrain from sticking my sticking my nose in? any further and simply watch with great interest from afar.
[snapback]62641[/snapback]
The fundamental issue here is that BMW found it necessary to re-engineer the E60 in order to achieve better safety marks, yet is not informing their customers of potentially fatal flaws in their vehicles. This could be construed as deceptive and misleading, and may open them to liability in the event of personal injury occuring in this vehicle.