cpd1

Skaffa,

I think there is a great deal of disclosure that needs to be done by BMW.
They themsleves acknowledged how important Euro NCAP is by carrying out what seems to account for very significant modifications. If they were so confident about the E60 performance, surely they wouldn't have bothered with it.
So this begs the question, how did the original E60 perform? That would be representative of the 99.9% of the E60 currenlty on the road...
BMW really brought that on themselves with the safety part of their brochure quoting from day one that they were aiming at a 5 star NCAP

cpd1

Northern Monkey,

I also sent an meail. Let's see what the reply is but for now their party line is very clear. They are however avoiding the key issue that they brought on themselves. Why implementing all these changes for NCAP if they think the car was so safe in the 1st place...

Iceman

@kscarrol

This is just a discussion , we are not justifying anything.
I am 100% with Gizmo on this.
BMW found it necessary to redesign the E60 after it received 3stars in the EuroNCAP. WHY? If the car is that safe (like BMW is trying to tell us), why did they redesigned it?
The answer is probably that rumour, what is out there. After the E60 received only 3stars, the German T?V checked the next to be released E60, the M5, and refused it! BMW is telling everybody that they had other problems, like the gearbox... Now, gimme a break... The gear box? The M5 is undergoing tests for 2 years or even more and NOW they have problems with the gear box? I don't think so. For me this is another hint, that there is something wrong with the design and BMW needs to redesign the car.
By looking at the numbers, the steering wheel moved 14mm in the re-test, after it has been redesigned! For me it looks like there are serious problems!
Now, you are asking about the differences in IIHS and EuroNCAP...
I can't tell you, since I am not familiar with IIHS.
But IIHS gave it a "best-buy", you said. OK. Just by looking at that result compared to the result of EuroNCAP, where BMW is not as good as others in their class, I think EuroNCAP crash tests are made for more severe accidents, probably at higher speeds (because it's Europe and we drive faster? )... But I really don't know!!!
And that's not the point! The point is, as Gizmo said, if the E60 would be so safe, why did BMW redesigned it for another test? There must be something severely wrong!
And... you can expect the E60 to be better or the same as the E39. And BMW failed to make it better!
Now I am just concerned about what happens if I crash, since my E60 is not redesigned!? If they would release the results from the first test in which the E60 received 3stars, it would maybe show that the E60 is safe, even with 3stars. But since BMW and EuroNCAP are hiding those results, nobody can compare the two tests! And that is proof enough to say, BMW is scared about the first results and don't want anybody to see them... And that's what's scaring me...

BTW, this thread is not unfriendly at all, IMHO...

clived

It's no mystery why BMW feel the need to redisgn based on the test results, irrespective of how safe they feel the car actually is.

There are two groups who have input to the car design: Engineering and MARKETING..... no point having the best car in the world if no-one is going to buy it because we're all obsessed with laboratory crash tests.

Clive

FirstBMW

I have 2003 build E60 my first BMW a fantastic drive but the crash tests make me wonder. In Norway one of the motoring websites headlined the results "Embarrasing for BMW" - an understatement. It will be interesting to see if the press elsewhere follows this up. On the issue of re-calls the A class Mercedes did a 'roll over' in the Swedish Elk test which MB tried to dismiss but at the end of the day had to eat humble pie and do a major re-fit. We must keep the pressure on BMW, good work so far.

clived

I suspect it's possible to design a car that performs pretty well in the tests, but would be a death trap in some real world incidents. Which would you rather be in?

Iceman

In the other car!
The MB or Audi with the 5star rating...

cpd1

@clived,

I agree that NCAP are engineered tests but then again accidents can be so different in their nature that there needs to be a common ground. Euro NCAP can certainly be criticized but it is the same test for all cars.
I don't believe that one could engineer a car to perform faultlessly on Euro NCAP and be a death trap in a normal accident.
Yes the scope of Euro NCAP is limited as with all crash tests, otherwise hundreds of tests would have to be carried out, but there are still basic ones and a safe car should do very well...
That Euro NCAP once awarded an extra star for seat belt reminder, I think is BullS* but nevertheless, BMW should do well in these tests. I mean the 1 series got a 5 star rating! An dthe 5 required an extensive set of mods to achieve 4 stars...The party line BMW is serving saying NCAP is laboratory and do not reflect real life is complete and utter bollo@cks, we all know that if they had a 5 star they would be touting it like crazy...They even mentioned in teh 5 series brochure that itr should achieve 5 star....

clived

I don't disagree with your statement, but then, you're agreeing with me - The test is engineered. Putting all your energy into getting a good rating, rather than making the car as crashworthy as possible in the widest range of situations, doesn't seem to make sense to me.
I didn't say "fautlessly" - I said "fairly well". And I didn't say "deathrap" period, I said "In some real world incidents"
Kind of makes my point better than I'd managed so far.
Which I'd take as demonstrating that BMW are more than capable of producing a "safe" car by your definition, something I doubt they've "forgotten" to do with the E60.

Cheers, Clive

Gizmo

I suspect it is even MORE possible to design a car that performs well in the tests, AND in real word incidents. Other automakers appear to have done so.

I choose to be in that car !!!