zippers525

What message should we send. What if we all send the same message. Can i get a mock up one?

kscarrol

Not really meaning to start a foglights type discussion here , but I don't really think any of us will have much of a leg to stand on as far as getting a new car or some other compensation for this. If our earlier models are truly shown to be unsafe in tests because of some design flaw, maybe. I, and presumably most early buyers, did not buy the E60 because we saw that it got 5 stars or 4 stars in some crash test, we bought it because we loved the design and the BMW engineering. I understand that we expect a certain level of safety from the BMWs we buy, but getting 3 stars vs 4 stars will not likley get anyone a new car. While the results are maybe a bit lower than we'd have hoped for, I'm not sure it is some fatal flaw that warrants replacement/compensation. Especially here in the US where the car is a Best Pick by the organization that handles our crash testing. And of course I expect BMWNA and BMWAG to handle it like they have handled most issues, which is to say, not very well.

RH530

I have to agree with kscarrol especially since the IIHS ratings were good. So for the US at least it looks like our independent test facility claimed this vehicle is safe (pre-mods even) and as far as BMWNA is concerned that's probably good enough. Maybe they'll have to address this in Europe due to the bad results there with the pre-mod E60s but it may not be enough unless they advertised it as a let's say 5 star vehicle and then it turns out to be three. I guess then you could argue that you bought it because of its safety rating (even though you should have bought a Volvo then ) and they provided false advertising -- even that's probably iffy since I don't remember them making a big deal out of any safety ratings when I bought it and I sure didn't ask about that since I was more interested in other parts of the car.

oreo

This is the issue for me - I would not even have considered the E60 to begin with if I knew it was a 3-star car. A high 4-star without the extra points for seat belt warning would have been my minimum standard for an executive class car. My dealer (as well as car magazines citing BMW release material) claimed that BMW expected E60 to achieve a 5-star rating in the EURO-NCAP. Given that the E39 (released in 1995) had a 4-star rating this seemed reasonable (who would expect that a 2004 year model would do worse than a 1995 model???), and I added the quoted improved safety into the arguments for getting an E60 instead of a cheaper 1 or 2 year old E39. In my opinion, BMW has accepted that the safety of the early E60's did not meet up to an acceptable standard (since they did not release the crash-test results but instead modified the car and re-tested it). They have now accepted that the car is only a 4-star car and have published there results for the notice of future buyers. I claim, however, that they used improper marketing methods (in Sweden at least) and due to this we are entitled to ask them to rectify the problem. The least thing that we can ask of them is that they modify the car in such a way that it meets the current standard. If they are not willing to do this, they should replace the car with a new, safer one. Comments??

Shredder

I agree completely oreo,

Btw, In addition to my email (posted above), I also called BMW UK last week. They promised to get back to me with a proper written response early this week. I have no experience of BMW service*<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>1</span>, so will not pre-judge them..... Oh OK then... I'll believe it when I see it ;-)

Nev

*<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>1</span> Well, not since I rescued my first car from the breakers yard in '85 for ?50, a BMW 2002Tii. Very nice and arguably far safer than a 2003 E60 530d

skaffa

I don't know is this even worth of posting, but I do anyway. When you read about these tests, they only give picture of how cars copare in those very special cases. So long that there is not any "red items" it's all the same. Crash is newer anything like test what they do. They do head on to the flat solid item like wall. How many that kind of accidenst there is? I think these tests are more like tools for manufacturers to improve and test different ideas.

Rather I take e60 than any five star smaller "lesser" car. (Ford, Opel, Peugeot, Renault, japs, koreans...). Safety is not only how it goes broken.

Skaffa

northernmonkey

I think the more people that "ask the question" the more chance of a result.

BMW are not going unused to recalls, only this year they recalled thousands of M3's for another engine issue and that work involved removing about half the engine and 2 days work in the dealers. Have a look on bm3w.co.uk and you will see hundreds of the people there had this work done.

what i am trying to say is, the issue with the E60 is potentially a saftey risk, and IMO warrants a recall in the same way (if not more) than a "potential" engine issue which the M3 had(has).

So I say keep the emails going to BMW the more momentum we get behind this the more likely something will happen.

Have to say I always get a response from BMW Customer Service but so far have heard nothing back on this issue which suggests either

a. they are ignoring me
b. they are actually looking into it serious as they have also had a number of other emails/calls from other E60's owners so are not willing to respond to me until they have an answer they can stick by. No doubt they are consulting BMW Legal to see where BMW would stand should a customer be involved in an accident and be injured by a part which they knew to be a potential risk.

300TTto545

I believe the standards get more strict as time goes on so that a 4 star for the E39 is worth much less that a 4 star today... And if you really believe that a 2002 is safer than an E60, I have a bridge to sell you.....(old US joke). Standards change and a 2002 is a great car but not as safe as an E60 (regardless of NCAP tests).

colejl

Why don't we go to the press, e.g. AutoExpress? Perhaps BMW would feel compelled to respond... The press always like a good story like this?

AutoExpress always seems to have an EuroNCAP update from time to time...

kscarrol

Why don't we go to the press, e.g. AutoExpress? Perhaps BMW would feel compelled to respond... The press always like a good story like this?

AutoExpress always seems to have an EuroNCAP update from time to time...


[/quote]

I agree that you guys in Europe might have a better leg to stand on. For those of us in North America, it's kind of hard to argue your "Best Pick" car is unsafe. If there was some marketing effort from BMW about 4 or 5 stars, and not just a hollow promise from a salesperson, then maybe there is some chance of compensation. Northenmonkey's answer, especially part B "injured by a part which they knew to be a potential risk" implies that the issue is not just fewer stars, but a real design flaw that may cause injury. I am not familiar w/ the EuroNCAP results, but if this is the case, then we all have a solid arguement. if the issue is simply one less star, good luck to you guys in Europe, but the US will be out of luck on this one.