EURO NCAP Crash Test Results for E60
12-01-2004, 06:11 PM
#181
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Originally Posted by zippers525' date='Dec 2 2004, 04:05 AM
Cheack this out: http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_rat...hp?id1=4&id2=49
I just checked it. It talls some of the upgrades made.
"BMW modified the 5-series after initial testing, chiefly because its front airbags fired late. Changes included a new airbag crash sensor, load-limiting front belts, and additional weld points in the footwell. Results given here are for upgraded cars which BMW says are on sale now. In the frontal impact, the driver's upper body was well protected, and the car meets side-impact legislation effective from October. The head protection airbag also worked well. Pedestrian protection was poor, however ? the bonnet and bumper were judged to be particularly 'aggressive'"
I dont want my air-bags going off late
I just checked it. It talls some of the upgrades made.
"BMW modified the 5-series after initial testing, chiefly because its front airbags fired late. Changes included a new airbag crash sensor, load-limiting front belts, and additional weld points in the footwell. Results given here are for upgraded cars which BMW says are on sale now. In the frontal impact, the driver's upper body was well protected, and the car meets side-impact legislation effective from October. The head protection airbag also worked well. Pedestrian protection was poor, however ? the bonnet and bumper were judged to be particularly 'aggressive'"
I dont want my air-bags going off late
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At least there was a precedent
12-01-2004, 06:15 PM
#184
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Originally Posted by zippers525' date='Dec 2 2004, 04:13 AM
woops, my bad. I thought i clicked on the other one. Sorry
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12-01-2004, 06:31 PM
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Let me remind some here of a point Iceman made earlier:
If having a bell go off until you engage your seat belts gets you a point in the NCAP ratings then the E60 (which happens to have this cutting edge bell technology) receieved something closer to a 2 counting other factors.
The more we dig into this issue, the worse the smell gets ...
If having a bell go off until you engage your seat belts gets you a point in the NCAP ratings then the E60 (which happens to have this cutting edge bell technology) receieved something closer to a 2 counting other factors.
The more we dig into this issue, the worse the smell gets ...
12-01-2004, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Gizmo' date='Dec 1 2004, 10:31 PM
Let me remind some here of a point Iceman made earlier:
If having a bell go off until you engage your seat belts gets you a point in the NCAP ratings then the E60 (which happens to have this cutting edge bell technology) receieved something closer to a 2 counting other factors.
The more we dig into this issue, the worse the smell gets ...
If having a bell go off until you engage your seat belts gets you a point in the NCAP ratings then the E60 (which happens to have this cutting edge bell technology) receieved something closer to a 2 counting other factors.
The more we dig into this issue, the worse the smell gets ...
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I have no doubts that the e60 is a safe car as tested by the IIHS (especially after looking through the actual test results/measurements and comparing them to other vehicles in its class and price range, such as the E500). As a very experienced engineer, I know it is always possible to "redesign" and "improve" something, even if it has been on the market for several years. However, it appears to me that there is no real basis for any e60 "safety" redesign, with the possible exception of "gaming" the overal test results (i.e., the star rating) of the NCAP testing.
If Gizmo, Iceman and others feel that the e60 is an unsafe vehicle design, then I suggest that they purchase a Mercedes, Audi or other European vehicle with which they are comfortable with the NCAP safety rating.
All this safety nonsense reminds me of the old "OSHA cowboy" poster, where the horse was "safety modified" with shock absorbers and all other manner of "safety" devices to prevent injury to the cowboy, who would be unable to ride with all these "safety" contraptions attached to his horse -- for over 100 years, cowboys rode horses safely without OSHA or other government testing/regulation. The e60 is without a doubt the most technologically advanced safety design of any 5 series ever produced by BMW (if for no other reason that many of its safety technologies simply did not exist a few years ago). If this is not good enough, then perhaps you should not buy a BMW....
12-01-2004, 10:07 PM
#187
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To move away from any conjecture, does anyone know if there is a source of crash survivablity data broken down by vehicle. When it comes to the crunch (pardon the pun) surely that's data that will really tell the story.
Have we seen any "High number of deaths in BMW E60" stories on the news?
Have those on the board who have been involved in accidents felt their car performed poorly?
Have we seen any "High number of deaths in BMW E60" stories on the news?
Have those on the board who have been involved in accidents felt their car performed poorly?
12-01-2004, 10:37 PM
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I have read the last 4+ pages of this thread and it appears that paranoia and hysteria have unfortunately infected this otherwise reasonable and informative forum in a very bad way. :'(
Respectfully disagree.
I have no doubts that the e60 is a safe car as tested by the IIHS (especially after looking through the actual test results/measurements and comparing them to other vehicles in its class and price range, such as the E500). As a very experienced engineer, I know it is always possible to "redesign" and "improve" something, even if it has been on the market for several years. However, it appears to me that there is no real basis for any e60 "safety" redesign, with the possible exception of "gaming" the overal test results (i.e., the star rating) of the NCAP testing.
You are comparing apples with oranges, because the tests performed are not the same.
All this safety nonsense reminds me of the old "OSHA cowboy" poster, where the horse was "safety modified" with shock absorbers and all other manner of "safety" devices to prevent injury to the cowboy, who would be unable to ride with all these "safety" contraptions attached to his horse -- for over 100 years, cowboys rode horses safely without OSHA or other government testing/regulation. The e60 is without a doubt the most technologically advanced safety design of any 5 series ever produced by BMW (if for no other reason that many of its safety technologies simply did not exist a few years ago). If this is not good enough, then perhaps you should not buy a BMW....
You're contradicting yourself...
Respectfully disagree.
I have no doubts that the e60 is a safe car as tested by the IIHS (especially after looking through the actual test results/measurements and comparing them to other vehicles in its class and price range, such as the E500). As a very experienced engineer, I know it is always possible to "redesign" and "improve" something, even if it has been on the market for several years. However, it appears to me that there is no real basis for any e60 "safety" redesign, with the possible exception of "gaming" the overal test results (i.e., the star rating) of the NCAP testing.
You are comparing apples with oranges, because the tests performed are not the same.
All this safety nonsense reminds me of the old "OSHA cowboy" poster, where the horse was "safety modified" with shock absorbers and all other manner of "safety" devices to prevent injury to the cowboy, who would be unable to ride with all these "safety" contraptions attached to his horse -- for over 100 years, cowboys rode horses safely without OSHA or other government testing/regulation. The e60 is without a doubt the most technologically advanced safety design of any 5 series ever produced by BMW (if for no other reason that many of its safety technologies simply did not exist a few years ago). If this is not good enough, then perhaps you should not buy a BMW....
You're contradicting yourself...
!
12-02-2004, 04:48 AM
#190
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Originally Posted by Guest' date='Dec 2 2004, 01:02 AM
I have read the last 4+ pages of this thread and it appears that paranoia and hysteria have unfortunately infected this otherwise reasonable and informative forum in a very bad way. :'(
All this safety nonsense ....
If this is not good enough, then perhaps you should not buy a BMW....
All this safety nonsense ....
If this is not good enough, then perhaps you should not buy a BMW....
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I find it somewhat remarkable the lengths some will go to protect the good name of their beloved vehicle manufacturer, even when this goodwill is not deserved or reciprocal. Let me echo others statements here: I love the E60. However, when information such as the NCAP ratings come to light we should be able to question the implications this might have for us as owners and drivers. For an anonymous individual to characterize such discourse as paranoia, hysteria, and an infection of this forum is at the least misguided.
Some anonymous individuals may characterize safety issues as nonsense, however, I and other consider this vital (I might suggest a trip to a level 1 trauma center for an indoctrination into vehicular trauma). I believe the questions posed in this thread are worthy of explanation, yet no answers have been forthcoming from BMW.
The simple fact is that BMW re-engineered the E60 based on crash test data they found unacceptable. If BMW finds this unacceptable, why whould I or others? Some here will hold as fact BMW's contention that the E60 is a stellar performer in "real world" accidents, however, there is no data whatsoever to support this. In fact, the only data we have is that of the testing agencies (one of which gave BMW a chance to re-enginner the E60 after less than optimal testing results).
I purchased the E60 because I found it to be the best performer in its class. My 545i is a phenomenal car. That doesn't mean I should overlook information which could potentially put me and my family at a greater than expected risk when driving this vehicle. Let BMW come forward with substantive explanations for their actions with the E60 and NCAP, and that there is no additional risk inherent to prior model E60's, and I am sure I and others will be content.
Happy Holidays !!! Dont drink and drive. Buckle-up !!!