Shredder

That's not my understanding of what BMW said in their response to me on page 6 of this thread. Their words were...

"Without wanting to question the results of the Euro NCAP in any way"

i.e. they did not say the test isn't accurately representative.

FYI, the Euro NCAP crash test video that ICEMAN kindly posted earlier in this thread bmw_5er2004.wmv
seems very similar to the real accident I was in recently.

My car didn't have the stickers on the side, the impact was harder and and the expression of the driver was a little different, but apart from that, it was the same

Jimbo

You know what happen when one ASSuMEs something.
Let's everyone chill for awhile and gather some facts.

Iceman

EuroNCAP has it on their website. They say "it achieved a four-star rating after Euro NCAP allowed frontal, side and pole retests following improvements to the car?s steering column, footrest, door trim, door latch, airbags and software.



:bashwall:
Let's agree to disagre.



kscarrol, this thread is no where close to RF, since we are just having a discussion. There is no personal attack here, no flame war, nothing. It's just an emotional debate, and I think this is good this way. I don't see ANY RF tones here...


The only known fact is: we don't know the facts! And that is what's so scary! Because it CAN be something very serious...

Shredder

Well, for me personally, I would just like to know from BMW what the changes were so that I can make an informed judgement about whether they were serious or minor.

As for stars... My mountain bike, surfboard and snowboard would all get 0 stars, but at least Cannondale didn't make safety-related fixes [during an independent safety test] to the suspension, frame, brakes and handlebars on the model of my bike and then not tell anyone what they had done....... I hope

kscarrol

EuroNCAP has it on their website. They say "it achieved a four-star rating after Euro NCAP allowed frontal, side and pole retests following improvements to the car?s steering column, footrest, door trim, door latch, airbags and software.



:bashwall:
Let's agree to disagre.



kscarrol, this thread is no where close to RF, since we are just having a discussion. There is no personal attack here, no flame war, nothing. It's just an emotional debate, and I think this is good this way. I don't see ANY RF tones here...


The only known fact is: we don't know the facts! And that is what's so scary! Because it CAN be something very serious...
[/quote]

Iceman, your first point about knowing which changes, the steering column, etc does not quite jive with your last point that we don't know that facts. There is a logical flaw in trying to argue both these points. We don't what changes were made to the car?s steering column, footrest, door trim, door latch, airbags and software.

Second, while your comments are not taking on that RF smell, others are. Go back and look at the exchange between Gizmo and a couple of folks (not pointing fingers at Gizmo, his is the only name that comes to mind).

As for "it can be something serious" all I can say is you trust NCAP, you believe in the testing they conduct. If you do, then why can't you believe that a 3 star rating is not unsafe. I totally agree, lower than we wanted, but not unsafe, not with some serious flaw that surely would have earned a 1 or 2 star rating. If you can't agree w/ this point you are saying that NCAP is lying/deceptive w/ its 3 star rating to cover up something, but you believe the new 4 star rating, or for that matter any other rating they give.

Try to hang loose guys, my head hurts from banging it against the wall.

Have a great day!

Shredder

Did I miss the part where Euro NCAP mentioned the car would have earned a three star rating without the mods?

I thought they said....

It achieved a four-star rating after Euro NCAP allowed.....retests following improvements.

Since we don't know what the improvements were, we also don't know how many stars the car would have earned before the improvements and subsequent retests.

EBMCS03

Well I spoke with BMW NA about this issue and they said basically the same thing... you cant compare the results from Euro NCAP to US... cuz they are built differently... you have to go with NHSII (or whatever) Different cars for differnt market... theres different federal regulations making them different. but they cant tell me what the "difference" is... one was Right and Drive and Left Hand Drive... So what? Maybe the steering column is mounted different for RHD and LHD?

Also... like someone mentioned the 520i thats tested in Euro NCAP... does it have Active steering? the 545i that was tested by NHSII probably had active steering... what other major difference is there between 545 and 520 besides the engine that will affect the tests?

kscarrol

Yes, the E60 initially earned a 3 star rating, which BMW was not happy with, so they were allowed to make modifications to earn the 4 star rating in a second test.

The 4 star rating wa the E60's second test!

zippers525

Where is that confirmed?

Hormazd

Damn! I try and get some work done and return the thread 8 hours later and its grown by 5 pages.

No this is far from RF. All I read was relatively well written and entertaining discourse on an important subject. I do not have a position on this. That is I am neither in one camp or the other. Both sides have valid arguments. I will however venture to say, that despite the NCAP tests, our pre-modified E60s are most probably the safest cars we have owned. They may not be as safe as they could be, and modifications may have made them safer. But what have we been driving for the last 20-30 years.

Lets keep the thread alive and wait for more information. BMW are you reading this??