Originally Posted by Brit_in_NJ' post='976551' date='Aug 14 2009, 09:26 AM

Most of us here probably can afford health insurance...many can probably afford to pay out of pocket for treatment if necessary. Maybe I'm selfish but looking at peoples responses here it doesn't appear I am the only one. Personally I don't want to pay for someone else's health care because then I would have to pay more taxes, I have good insurance that doesn't cost me much, I'm good. Even so there are too many people that can't afford insurance...can't afford to pay for their health care out of pocket. How productive to society are unwell people? I know if I'm sick I might drag myself to work but I certainly don't feel as productive as when I am well. How much does that cost our economy when you consider all those that can't find treatment? What about people with minor conditions that fail to get inexpensive treatment that escalate into something worse?

There is no health care system that works. Private, government, free for all there is no perfect system anywhere, if there was we would hear about it. To those that want to leave things the way they are are just idiots, greedy or insane; unfortunately treatments for those conditions are probably excluded under any insurance plan! Any system is going to have faults but I think if people pulled together as a country to put all our health first then at least it's a start.

Originally Posted by DRANGED' post='977817' date='Aug 15 2009, 07:37 PM

roger, I think you have me confused with someone else. I believe Healthcare should stay privatized. Insurance should be abolished. Things were better when people payed for things themselves. People should pay as they go using untaxed Health Savings Accounts. People should be responsible for their own affairs. Use as much of your own money as you see fit to preserve your life or that of a loved one.

BTW, you Tiger now!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It0ozA0dXQY

Originally Posted by MiamiPhill' post='978068' date='Aug 16 2009, 02:49 AM

Ok, kind of a non-answer.........I'll go first then;

My Health Saving/spending Account, HSA would be unencumbered by a lot of rules and red tape and would be,
1) Tax free. (with minor exceptions)
2) Fully portable(you keep it as you move from job to job).
3) Transferable (It can be passed on to your designated beneficiaries tax free.)
4) You can add as much money as you can afford to it.
5) If your employer contributes to your HSA they get a tax cut in the equivalent if they are a small or medium sized business. (Progressively less as the corporation gets larger.) I expect some of you not to like this.
6) No age restrictions but cannot be counted as assets for minors seeking financial aid for school. (so you can have separate accounts for your minor children.)
7) Can be invested but resulting profits can be subject to taxes if removed from the plan to be used for non-health care related expenditures.
8) Your HSA's principal contributions can only be used for health care related expenditures (including dental, vision, cosmetic, family planning etc.)
9) Your HSA is not subject to liens, lawsuits, alimony,garnishments etc.
10) .....that's all I have so far.

Of course this would only be a part of comprehensive healthcare reform which, for me at least, needs to include a public option or a facsimile thereof.

Originally Posted by DRANGED' post='978012' date='Aug 16 2009, 01:40 AM

roger, I have negotiated cash payment many times. In the immortal words of the Wu Tang Clan, Cash Rules Eveything Around Me

Originally Posted by mjfloyd1' post='977594' date='Aug 15 2009, 02:39 PM

Medicare is nearly bankrupt. Social security is likewise nearly bankrupt. Physicians accept medicare only because their income can be "propped up" by payments from patients with private insurance. Physicians could not afford to run their offices and pay their office staff and malpractice insurance premiums if they had to rely solely on payments from medicare and medicaid. This is why physicians limit the numbers of patients with medicare and medicaid in their practices. Physicians actually lose money on medicaid office visits where I live.

Originally Posted by porsche911targa' post='978546' date='Aug 16 2009, 05:18 PM

Still, as a test, let's all tell our gramps that the government will privatize Medicare and let's see how many of us come out alive.....

Originally Posted by garylewa' post='978290' date='Aug 16 2009, 10:36 AM

I am being regionally secular here to answer the above but our public schools in this area are a complete & utter disaster, both financially (i.e. budgetary) and efficiently (i.e. graduation rate & true level of the students academic ability).

62-65% of our property tax goes directly to the local public school district and for this we are granted with a 50% graduation rate. This is awful by any means. I know the parents are also to blame in this fiasco before this point is brought up. But, I am sick and tired every fall of voting on a new millage for the school. I am a public school product and it pains me to vote no on this issue but when is enough, enough? I am sick of the school board "brass" having company cars, gas credit cards, no-pay insurance (both auto & health), private spending accounts, etc. etc.. How is this, using the public school mantra: "For the kids"? All we are creating is a legion of fast food workers. They are also trying out the concept of "outcome based education"; this winning process is not concerned with grades but as long as little Jimmy tries he deserves an "A". In the real world "trying" gets you fired; "doing" keeps you hired.

Cleveland's public schools (horrible grad rate) are ready to go into state receivership and once again it is blamed solely on financial hardship. And don't even get me started on Detroit's public schools; these clowns have one of the largest budgets in the country and still have a 65-70% drop-out rate. They also were just recently given 2.5 billion dollars in TARP funds. So now "WE" are paying for a different district's nightmare. The school board in Detroit has tax-payer bodyguards for it's members. But remember, "It's for the kids"...........

Money is not the answer to fixing these issues as I have shown above. The public schools have enough cash to teach children effectively. I am not blaming the teachers either, I have been blessed with great teachers when I went to school, teaching me to learn and think critically and with problem-solving skills. These skills or tools seem to be lost regarding the newer generations of students. Things now are more of a "sponge and puke up the answer" mode of thought. The way simple mathematics is taught now is a nightmare! I come from a long line of educators (teachers & professors, not management). Since public school has "become" a business the level of effective public education has dropped. If you can't make it on a 2.5 billion dollar handout you are not in the right business and something needs to be done because remember; "It's for the kids".

Originally Posted by C's Bimmer' post='978875' date='Aug 17 2009, 12:36 AM

I am really surprised at how many uneducated members we have on this forum. It's pretty embarrassing.

Originally Posted by sdg1871' post='978922' date='Aug 17 2009, 01:01 AM

Is that an observation applicable to both sides of the healthcare debate or one particular side?