ImolaRedM

How is the F10 more economical? Other than presumably lower cost to produce because of less use of aluminum I seem to missing something.

I'm not a fan of Audi but I took a look (on paper) at the 4.2L A6 Quattro and it weighs less than the 550i, and has the same fuel consumption. If it came with a manual transmission I might give it a serious look despite the lower power output of the Audi V8 and sedate driving characteristics of previous A6's that I have driven.

I'm not a casual admirer of the 5-series. I've owned many through out the years going back to a 1977 530i 4-speed. I love the car but I really question the growth in size without addressing the weight. I may have gotten older over the years but my taste in cars hasn't and I'm not ready to move into a large heavy sedan in the same size and weight range as the SWB E38 7-Series. The 3 is looking more appealing.

vkhong

Think of 500 extra pounds this way: it's like strapping on 1200cc motorcycle or 400cc quad bike onto a car (weight evenly distributed, of course). That's 500 extra pounds.

Petes550i

You know, with all this talk about how the increased weight is such a serious detriment and has hurt the F10.....I would like someone to provide me with some real hard numbers to back this up. If anything, the F10 535i and 550i are just as quick, if not quicker (esp. the 550i) than their E60 counterparts and posted fuel economy is actually better. Actual track numbers for the F10 cars haven't been officially posted yet but I'd be willing to bet that they're better also. As for the issue of the added weight hurting steering feel.....that's purely subjective. For me personally, I see absolutely no problem on my car....the prodigious power in my 550i makes the car feel agile and quick in any road condition.


Also, why is it that no one has mentioned the fact that the Audi A6 3.0T is actually heavier (almost 70 lbs infact) than the F10 535i? However, you don't see anyone here complaining about that.....instead a lot of guys seem to jump on the Audi bandwagon because one car magazine like it over the BMW.

The Infiniti M37 is about a 100 lbs lighter than the 535i but is slower to 60 mph, has less grip on the skidpad, and has a longer braking distance. But no one here complains about that.

Some of you guys need some justification to dislike the F10 and that's fine. More power to you.

Petes550i

I'll tell you guys an example of where the added weight did truly hurt a newly-designed model....The 2009 (4th gen) Acura TL...a car that I just came out of. Just like the F10, the 4G TL came out longer, wider and heavier than the previous generation. And despite an increase in hp, the car tested out to be significantly slower than the previous generation. However, Acura did something recently to significantly alleviate the problem with the increased weight....they've added a 6-sp manual to the the TL line....and lo and behold, the 6MT TL-SHAWD tested out to be significantly faster (0-60 in 5.2 sec) than even the best 3G TL--that is, the Type S.....the 6MT TL-SHAWD even beat out the mighty Audi S4 and BMW 335i in track tests! So this shows that there are ways to get around the weight problem.

However, what ultimately hurt the TL commercially was not the weight, it was the super radical design....in particular, the beak-like front grill. As a result, the TL has consistently placed near the bottom of its class in sales ever since it has come out.

swajames

The primary point you're overlooking is that as fast and nimble as you might consider the F10 to be, it would be faster and nimbler still if it didn't have to deal with getting on for 500 extra pounds over the outgoing model. That is a very significant difference, and it clearly has an impact on agility. Electronics can't overcome the laws of physics and the added mass is regrettable. Colin Chapman and Gordon Murray had it right when they insisted on "adding lightness" to the cars they designed and built. While not a competitor to the F10, it is interesting to note that the new 2011 Cayenne is up to 400 lbs lighter than its 2010 predecessor. It is simply a question of focus - BMW has taken its eye off the ball here and the added mass bears testament to this.

The Audi comparison isn't a good one as the A6 3.0 TFSI is All Wheel Drive, whereas the F10 535i is not... The question you ought to be asking is why an AWD Audi is only negligibly heavier than the RWD 535i. In the case of the A6 4.2, it is actually lighter than the F10 550. Compare the right F10 models, the forthcoming xDrive-equipped models, and the difference will be even more profound.

The observation that no one complains about the Infiniti is hardly surprising as the car is simply doing what it was designed to do - offer close to BMW levels of performance at a lower cost of entry when comparably equipped.

ImolaRedM

Really? I compared the 4.2 A6 against the 550i. But since you bring up the A6 3.0T. Lets look at that number again. The A6 3.0T weighs in at 4123 lbs while the 535i weighs in at 4056 lbs. But the A6 3.0T has the extra baggage of AWD. So the 67 lbs difference is justified, I'm afraid. How much would an F10 535iX weigh?

I always considered the Audi a bit of a pig when it came to weight but now I can't say that anymore. And if you don't think weight matters then I'm sure you wouldn't consider a CSL at any price. And don't even bother looking into what a Lotus Elise can do with a 4 cyl engine.

Over the years, BMW has invested in weight reduction with use of aluminum, and is investing heavily in a carbon fiber plant here in Washington. So, that's why I'm surprised at the HUGE increase in heft of the F10. I'm hardly a hater or a luddite. I have owned many BMWs and only became shocked by the weight of the F10. I like the bells and whistles, I have HUD, ventilated seats and a bunch of other options that I wouldn't be able to get in a 3 series but I am one of those who also want sporty driving. I will go out and test drive an F10 but I find it hard to believe that the weight will be easy to overcome and find myself more attracted to the 3 series or just keeping my E60 for a while longer.

BigMike

500 lbs?

That's easy. Have everyone (all four people) walk alongside the car with all the bagagge in hand (instead of the trunk). Since no one can drive, everyone can just push the car. Not only does this mean the same weight as the E60 but also means very very good gas mileage!

Petes550i

Well the point I'm trying to make is that despite the added weight, there are ways to alleviate some of the consequences of that. Look at my example of the 6MT TL-SHAWD above. The thing is, nowdays people want more power, more features, more luxury, and more room in their new cars and automakers have no choice but to give it to them to increase sales....the consequence of this is naturally more weight. But engineers are clever and they often find tricks to make sure performance is still there.

As far as the Audi, you can't really compare the A6 4.2 to the F10 550i either because the A6 has a smaller engine so naturally it'll be lighter on that alone. You can bet that when the new A6 comes out next year, it'll be significantly heavier than the current one.

As for the Infiniti, no automaker is going to produce a model so that it can hopefully come close to beating another model. Infiniti built the G37 and M cars to surpasss their BMW counterparts plain and simple.....but we all know they still fall short.

swajames

The only point being made here is that added mass usually isn't a good thing and that there is only so much that the engineers can do to mask the issue. Had the weight increase been more moderate, it would have been regrettable but it would have been more widely accepted. As it stands, the increases are significant, much more than anyone expected, and the net result is simply a bigger, heavier, less agile car. That may well have been BMW's goal, and it isn't necessarily a bad thing as we've discussed it at length in other threads, but it's not really any cause for celebration in a car with sporting aspirations. Just imagine how much better the car could be if it shed a few pounds? That's all the members here are saying. Whether it matters or not depends on what you expect out of a 5 Series.

As for the new 2012 Audi A6 being heavier than the outgoing A6, I think you might be surprised - the new A6 is being built on a new chassis that is reportedly 50% lighter than the current chassis despite being significantly stronger and more rigid.

Petes550i

Well going back to my earlier post, show me some hard numbers that prove once and for all that the added mass and weight makes the F10 550i slower and less agile (and brake longer) than the E60 550i on a straight track and in the twisties. Otherwise all this talk about the weight being a Huge detriment is purely subjective.

I mean I do agree that increased weight in general is not a good thing but as it relates to the 550i, it's not as bad of a factor as many of you think it is. On the plus side, the car feels much more solid, refined, and comfortable than any of my previous 5 series that I've owned.

As for the 2012 A6, who knows what the final production car will look like. But I'd be willing to bet that the F10 550i will still have better performance numbers.