EuroCarFan

Hey Tom, to clarify, I had PM-ed Eloy this thread and asked him to provide some feedback cause of his knowledge with dynos. I can't speak for him but I think his skepticism is based on his historical experience with different tune/tuners.

RPIpower

Not bashing a product man. I have recommended the Singh tune to a LOT of MB guys after I dynoed your car. It is what it is though. Im just trying to keep things in perspective because there will be a lot of people that buy and spend a lot of money based on claims that are made. We know that the guys at Eurorev have no intentions or misleading anyone as we do lots of business with little Vinny. The questions raised are things people will ask. Like I said, Ive been skeptical with even the tuners that do things with us. Im just one to want to see things for myself. With the dynos done at separate times and different conditions + correction factors, it just made me want to see it myself more.

On another note. I want to make a public appology. I am in no way trying to bash anyone. In the past 2 years, I have seen new companies come out with tunes and claim these astronomical gains (20+) with a tune and I saw so many good customers spend thousands of dollars on them only to be really dissappointed. We tried the tune that everyone was rantin about on the m5board. The thread went on for pages. Once it was tested, the thread died and the company went away. Rab tried the tune from England. Shipped his ecu all the way there and sent back, only to lose power. So, Tom, John and who ever else, I appologize for coming out like that. I hope this wont stop me from getting some of the steaks?

C's Bimmer

Tom - In all fairness, I have been going back and forth with Jags at Singh and Roman at ESS. I get different versions of what's realistic and what is not. On top of that, I've been asking many questions about what variables are a factor and what are not. In the end, much of it is very confusing to those that are not software developers; such as myself. I had asked Eloy for his opinion on both, prior to this dyno being released. In the end, it seems like most tunes of this nature of very similar. He was unbiased towards both companies and gave me a straight answer. He actually told me to go with whatever I felt comfortable with, knowing full well that I have many of his products on my car.

For me, I couldn't understand why the ESS developers couldn't extract similar numbers to Singh. I keep asking myself if there is some secret sauce amongst the tuning world as to how one can extract a significant amount more than the other. I know Dinan does it to stay within the limits of the warranty, but this shouldn't apply to anyone else. So what's holding them back? In the end, it seems like numbers get inflated to sell a product through. I don't blame them. It sells.

I am still debating between the two. Price is definitely a factor, since ESS also offers the ELC, on top of their ECU Tune, for the same price that Singh offers their ECU tune alone.

In the end, I'm sure both tunes make quite a difference and those that do it will be happy either way.

Now, with all that said, I am still confused. Hahahahaha!

EuroCarFan

What was the gain on Tom's car on your dyno Eloy? I had thought Tom dynoed at the same place where this M5 dynoed.

RPIpower

I dont think we ever dynod Tom's M5 after the tune. After he put the Dinan back on there was just too many differences to make a good comparisons. Things get distorted with differences in dyno days etc. If you guys have been here over a span of time, you can see how I leave cars on the dyno for weeks. Some of you guys come here and say "damn that car is still on the dyno?" Well yeah, I want to leave the fan at the same location, same angle, same strap down, etc. I was really impressed with the Singh tune on Tom's MB cause I ran that thing hard over and over and it held up with no problem, something I cant say about the other tunes I have tested. VT or VD can tell you how his SS tune would crap out over 2 runs and start losing hp.

Calton, Im unbiased. I just tell it like it is. Those of you who followed the M5board even know that we would tell people when one of our products lost power. It took us so long to get the M5 exhaust right cause the first few mid pipe prototypes kept losing power.

EuroCarFan

Sorry, I meant to ask what the gain was on Tom's C63 on your dyno, not his M5.

C's Bimmer

And I praise you for that. I'd also like to add that Jags is a true class act as well. He was very responsive and informative to my questions and concerns. Same goes for Roman. In the end, we're all here to enjoy our cars and outrace each other whenever possible. Still trying to figure out if I can put an E63 AMG engine in my M5.

Oh, and the only person that's full of crap is Tony. Later.

RPIpower

Oh trust me man. If I can get our M5 another 30whp, because I can tell you, you will NOT get 30whp with the PC or ESS, or MHT, or any of the other 5 tunes I have tested, I would do it RIGHT AWAY. Im a HP nut and any power I can get, Ill do it!

John@EuroRev

I know I have been rash before when situations like this occurred (apologies to acuteperformance) which led to some members losing respect for me.
I hope you guys forgive me

On behalf of Vincent Bahar, CEO of EuroRev LLC:
EuroRev is a vendor for both Race Precision Inc and Singh Autosport. We are supporters and would like to continue a healthy relationship with both companies. What we did was by chance we had a M5 customer who wanted the Singh tune and headers. Since some 5 series members were inquiring dyno numbers, we took it to an independent dyno shop that was not affilated with BMW or sell BMW aftermarket parts. We wanted to ensure that the product works before we posted it on 5 series forums.

We did not bash any companies or anyone here.
We request that this thread be used for technical discussion and be useful for 5 series members

Thanks

RPIpower

Hey John, that cant be from vince. I know his english too well