Why do BMWs handle better than cars from Mercedes-Benz and Audi?
05-27-2009, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by DD_545i' post='891487' date='May 27 2009, 06:00 AM
That'd make the european delivery program exceedingly inefficient 
05-27-2009, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by v_therussian' post='891488' date='May 27 2009, 06:01 AM
no, far from all. It used to be the Z4, X5 and the 3 series, but now I think its only the 3 series and the X3... not sure exactly, but the 3 series definitely.
05-27-2009, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by v_therussian' post='891479' date='May 27 2009, 02:51 AM
Dude, who ever said Car and Driver had any reliable conlusions? Even their test DATA (which is basically hardcore numbers - kinda hard to mess up) has been known to be crap, so I wouldn't put much stock into that. Automobile magazine did a comparro of 335 coupe to the G37S Coupe and they basically reflected that if G37 didn't beat the 335, it came closer than any other car. IMO G37 just doesn't have that class of the BMW - both in appearance and handling, but that's subjective, and that's why I buy BMW - not Infiniti. Though G37 coupe is definitely high on my list!
Cuz its C&D - they're just that kind of assholes :thumbsdown:
Probably because it wasn't made by the same company - your 535 was most likely built in Germany, while the 328s roll of the assembly line right here in the good old U.S. of A - Spartanburg, SC plant. And we all know what U.S. auto industry is like
Cuz its C&D - they're just that kind of assholes :thumbsdown:
Probably because it wasn't made by the same company - your 535 was most likely built in Germany, while the 328s roll of the assembly line right here in the good old U.S. of A - Spartanburg, SC plant. And we all know what U.S. auto industry is like
They are crap but what I mentioned is that avg Joe stops by at magazine section, look through bunch of car mags and readthis article.
I also agree with about missing that class of BMW has. And I agree and has no objection if the mags decided that the performance levels on these 2 cars are too close and can't
pick a clear winner and the tie breaker being class of bmw that infiniti is missing.
Infiniti has pretty much caught bmw in terms of performance/handling, what bmw wins in comparison nowadays are the class of bmw has over other makers.
So back to OP, I think the bmws handle slightly better than other cars but not to a degree where clear winner is bmw, if comparison is being compared with right competitor.
05-27-2009, 02:16 AM
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so am I, but c'mon 
Originally Posted by craigm1841' post='891501' date='May 27 2009, 06:12 AM
i bet there is somewhere on the car that will tell me the assembly point...
05-27-2009, 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by v_therussian' post='891503' date='May 27 2009, 05:16 AM
hahahaa yeah, I know where you're coming from, but they actually handle really good for what they are
"an foreigner"? so am I, but c'mon
the force is strong within you
"an foreigner"?
so am I, but c'mon the force is strong within you
Oops. Missed it. I was gonna write "an immigrant" but then that would imply he would need a green card, and that he was here illegally. Didn't wanna deal with being politically correct.
05-27-2009, 05:39 AM
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My Ride: F11 520d white, auto, professional sat-nav with internet, variable damper control, sports steering wheel, extended lighting, retractable tow bar, wing mirrors with dimming & folding, full electric seats with memory & lumber adjustment, etc.
I started the year in a 530d SE, switched to an Audi Q5 in SLine spec, had a temporairy M-B Class and I am now back with a new 530d SE. OK technically the Audi Q5 and the M-B C Class are from the group below the 5 Series but having had a E-Class in the past can fairly safely say that BMW have the other two licked when it comes to driver appeal & road holding. I choose the SE trim because I didnt want bone crunching suspension but did still want very good handling and shore footedness turning into motorway bends fast and on twisty country roads. The Audi foot control set-up is completely wrong, offset to the right with the brake pedal too high in relation to the accelerator, the footrest makes your foot go to sleep on a long journey. The biggest failing was the suspension and handling set-up far too firm and uncomposed over any less than perfect surface this made the car horrible to live with and the reason I got rid of it. The M-B C Class was better than the Audi as far as road manners but the drivers "feel" and communication with the road felt delayed and it did not handle pot holes at all.
The BMW by contrast even with run flat tyres lets you feel the car through undulations, corners and reverse cambers so you know the limits of control and as a result is more comforting to drive and live with in a daily manner. It took a few months away from BMW behind the wheel of two other premium brands to realise just how complete BMW have made the 5-Series the new F10 will have a tough job making it better.
The BMW by contrast even with run flat tyres lets you feel the car through undulations, corners and reverse cambers so you know the limits of control and as a result is more comforting to drive and live with in a daily manner. It took a few months away from BMW behind the wheel of two other premium brands to realise just how complete BMW have made the 5-Series the new F10 will have a tough job making it better.
05-27-2009, 09:39 AM
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Wow look at the time for the CTS-V, I think that makes it the fastest 4 door on the 'ring.
Back on topic, in a class by class comparison BMW tends to have the lightest car in the test. That's one factor. But it goes deeper. The difference between engineers and scientists is that engineering involves subjectivity. You can't really express how a car handles with numbers.
BMW has built a reputation as a car company that gets it right, because they understand the importance of 'feel'. How a car 'feels' is more important to them than setting records or toppling a benchmark.
Back on topic, in a class by class comparison BMW tends to have the lightest car in the test. That's one factor. But it goes deeper. The difference between engineers and scientists is that engineering involves subjectivity. You can't really express how a car handles with numbers.
BMW has built a reputation as a car company that gets it right, because they understand the importance of 'feel'. How a car 'feels' is more important to them than setting records or toppling a benchmark.
05-27-2009, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by uheenada' post='891430' date='May 27 2009, 04:39 AM
I'll add my 2 cents.
It's all because of auto magazines great bias toward BMW.
Just one example, I came across this post at e90post.com
about 328 vs g37 vs tl vs a4 (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265678)
Full C&D article is here (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st+page-5.html)
Surprise, surprise, 328i won the comparison. There's so much bias that I stopped reading auto magazines long time ago.
328i didn't outperform any of power/handling categories except gas mileage
and in the end, they said "we once again behold the definitive sports sedan."
What defines the best sports sedan? Performance numbers? price? size? gas mileage? oh I guess it's a gas mileage
The article mentioned " At the track, the Infiniti shamed the Bimmer in every contest except for skidpad (a tie)."
Read again, G37s SHAMED not just beat. They also mentioned how great drivetrain was.
Oh and forgot to mention, G37s has VLSD while 328i got nothing. Didn't we all say Quafie LSD is the best mod next to upgrade to M5?
How can professional drivers say non lsd equipped underpowered(and doesn't outhandle other cars) car is more of driver's car than
a car with vlsd, signicantly more power, better braking, same handling?
I just can't believe how can 328i "won" this comparison. and Look at the thread, people say 328i is still the "driver's car" even though
G37s outperformed. What is the definition of driver's car? How you feel? Actual performance? How can a magazine compare
several cars then throw all the numbers away and go by bmw feel? Then, what's the point of doing all the track testing if they are just
gonna select whatever they feel that is best? If they tested 335i then I completely agree with the magazine since 335i outperforms slightly
on pretty much every category. But 328i? give me a break.
I had 328i and g37s as loaner cars before. What you feel in 328i is not bmw feel, it's unrefinement compare to g37S.
The article summed up with saying "What the 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury"
Driving dynamics, again what method are they using? Last time I heard when you compare something, you rate based on performance on each product, and add
all the numbers each product scored and highest scored product wins. Apparently they do not. Luxury? the article mentioned, this 328i didn't even equipped
with leather and power seats and the verdict is 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury?
OK my post got really long, but what I wanted to say is that
auto mags are bias way beyond that they use special math formula where bmw logo will give extra 500 points.
And this is just ONE example.
It's all because of auto magazines great bias toward BMW.
Just one example, I came across this post at e90post.com
about 328 vs g37 vs tl vs a4 (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265678)
Full C&D article is here (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st+page-5.html)
Surprise, surprise, 328i won the comparison. There's so much bias that I stopped reading auto magazines long time ago.
328i didn't outperform any of power/handling categories except gas mileage
and in the end, they said "we once again behold the definitive sports sedan."
What defines the best sports sedan? Performance numbers? price? size? gas mileage? oh I guess it's a gas mileage
The article mentioned " At the track, the Infiniti shamed the Bimmer in every contest except for skidpad (a tie)."
Read again, G37s SHAMED not just beat. They also mentioned how great drivetrain was.
Oh and forgot to mention, G37s has VLSD while 328i got nothing. Didn't we all say Quafie LSD is the best mod next to upgrade to M5?
How can professional drivers say non lsd equipped underpowered(and doesn't outhandle other cars) car is more of driver's car than
a car with vlsd, signicantly more power, better braking, same handling?
I just can't believe how can 328i "won" this comparison. and Look at the thread, people say 328i is still the "driver's car" even though
G37s outperformed. What is the definition of driver's car? How you feel? Actual performance? How can a magazine compare
several cars then throw all the numbers away and go by bmw feel? Then, what's the point of doing all the track testing if they are just
gonna select whatever they feel that is best? If they tested 335i then I completely agree with the magazine since 335i outperforms slightly
on pretty much every category. But 328i? give me a break.
I had 328i and g37s as loaner cars before. What you feel in 328i is not bmw feel, it's unrefinement compare to g37S.
The article summed up with saying "What the 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury"
Driving dynamics, again what method are they using? Last time I heard when you compare something, you rate based on performance on each product, and add
all the numbers each product scored and highest scored product wins. Apparently they do not. Luxury? the article mentioned, this 328i didn't even equipped
with leather and power seats and the verdict is 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury?
OK my post got really long, but what I wanted to say is that
auto mags are bias way beyond that they use special math formula where bmw logo will give extra 500 points.
And this is just ONE example.
Clearly you drive a BMW, but you are not an enthusiast. BMW is not about hard numbers. A dumbass Mustang can smoke most of our cars (in a straight line). Bmw is about a culture, it's about heritage, it's about having the feeling you're driving on rails. I'll take a 40 year old BMW 2002 over any Infiniti, Lexus, Audi, M/B and any other BMW wannabe. I bet 40 years from now there will be more people clamoring for an 80 yr. old BMW 2002 than a 40 yr. old G37.
ALL car manufacturers use BMW as a benchmark, and while they're usually good at beating BMW on something or the other, they cannot beat the whole package. Again, whole package does not mean just the numbers; it's about road feel, it's about taking that apex a little faster than you normally would because you know your BMW can handle it. The 328 is not that bad of a car. You cannot compare it to a 5 or a G37 really. It depends on what you want to do with your car. If you want to bang it around the twisties, I'll take a 328 over the G37 or even the E60. It's like people who ride bicycles and people who ride motorcycles. Motorcycles are faster. Does it mean that they are better than bicycles? Not you want to give your heart a good aerobic workout. Everything has a purpose. The 3 is suited to those who want to experience the BMW handling without all the extra room or toys you find in the bigger BMWs while still enjoying a certain amount of prestige that comes with the BMW. Yes, the brand will add an extra few (or lots) $$, but that's normal in any consumer product. Why does Nike charge a lot more than New Balance? Some of their shoes are quite comparable, but you pay a premium for the brand. I believe they call that "goodwill" on their balance sheets."