Why do BMWs handle better than cars from Mercedes-Benz and Audi?
05-27-2009, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DD_545i' post='890975' date='May 26 2009, 08:01 PM
But what's that list got to do with "handling" ?
A lotus exige handles better than an Audi R8 but the R8 is ahead of it on that list.
Handling != Power
A lotus exige handles better than an Audi R8 but the R8 is ahead of it on that list.
Handling != Power
05-27-2009, 07:02 PM
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Well said. The ride/handling balance and the preciseness/feel of its steering puts BMW in a handling class way above MB and Audi.
There are other cars that can generate and even exceed some of the objective handling numbers of BMW (skidpad, etc). But to generate those numbers, the suspensions in those cars lose of their refinement.
My last car was a 2006 Infiniti M45 Sport. It could largely keep up with my 550 in the twisties....But the Infinit's suspension was a blunt and brutal instrument. It absolutely pounded you over every single bump, pothole and road imperfection. My passengers hated it. My passengers (and me) love my 550i Sport. It handles just as well if not better than the Infiniti in terms of grip and responsiveness. But it has a tight, and REFINED ride. It does not shudder over every road imperfection and shake your kidneys. it does not lose its composure.
And that's the difference between a BMW and everything else.
There are other cars that can generate and even exceed some of the objective handling numbers of BMW (skidpad, etc). But to generate those numbers, the suspensions in those cars lose of their refinement.
My last car was a 2006 Infiniti M45 Sport. It could largely keep up with my 550 in the twisties....But the Infinit's suspension was a blunt and brutal instrument. It absolutely pounded you over every single bump, pothole and road imperfection. My passengers hated it. My passengers (and me) love my 550i Sport. It handles just as well if not better than the Infiniti in terms of grip and responsiveness. But it has a tight, and REFINED ride. It does not shudder over every road imperfection and shake your kidneys. it does not lose its composure.
And that's the difference between a BMW and everything else.
Originally Posted by Richard in NC' post='892188' date='May 27 2009, 07:39 PM
I have the C&D with the 328i vs G37 comparison. I don't know why they picked a stripped BMW to compete but here are the specs:
Car: 328i G37 Acura TL
Price: $36k $40k $44k
CW 3352 3682 3975
Litre 3.0 3.7 3.7
HP 230 328 305
0-60 5.9 5.4 6.5
rolling 6.4 6.3 6.9
mpg 28 25 25
max DB 75 82 77
Gs .92 .92 .92
In short the 328i was $4k less than the G37 and $8k less than the TL. Add the premium pkg and its still less.
The 328i has a .7 litre 100hp disadvantage and its only .1 slower to 60 in a rolling start!!! Plus its faster than the TL.
The max DBs speak to refinement. The G37 is loud and obnoxious when pushed hard whereas the BMW inline 6 is always smooth and free reving. The other cars may have matched the BMW handling "numbers" but good handling is more about balance, feel, and precision.
IMHO, the BMW magic is about the combined precision feel of the suspension, brakes, & steering, with the added refinement of smooth broad power. This applies to a 328i all the way up to the 760Li. I've driven plenty of "nice" cars. None had the all around feelof the BMW.
Car: 328i G37 Acura TL
Price: $36k $40k $44k
CW 3352 3682 3975
Litre 3.0 3.7 3.7
HP 230 328 305
0-60 5.9 5.4 6.5
rolling 6.4 6.3 6.9
mpg 28 25 25
max DB 75 82 77
Gs .92 .92 .92
In short the 328i was $4k less than the G37 and $8k less than the TL. Add the premium pkg and its still less.
The 328i has a .7 litre 100hp disadvantage and its only .1 slower to 60 in a rolling start!!! Plus its faster than the TL.
The max DBs speak to refinement. The G37 is loud and obnoxious when pushed hard whereas the BMW inline 6 is always smooth and free reving. The other cars may have matched the BMW handling "numbers" but good handling is more about balance, feel, and precision.
IMHO, the BMW magic is about the combined precision feel of the suspension, brakes, & steering, with the added refinement of smooth broad power. This applies to a 328i all the way up to the 760Li. I've driven plenty of "nice" cars. None had the all around feelof the BMW.
05-27-2009, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sdg1871' post='892411' date='May 27 2009, 08:02 PM
Well said. The ride/handling balance and the preciseness/feel of its steering puts BMW in a handling class way above MB and Audi.
There are other cars that can generate and even exceed some of the objective handling numbers of BMW (skidpad, etc). But to generate those numbers, the suspensions in those cars lose of their refinement.
My last car was a 2006 Infiniti M45 Sport. It could largely keep up with my 550 in the twisties....But the Infinit's suspension was a blunt and brutal instrument. It absolutely pounded you over every single bump, pothole and road imperfection. My passengers hated it. My passengers (and me) love my 550i Sport. It handles just as well if not better than the Infiniti in terms of grip and responsiveness. But it has a tight, and REFINED ride. It does not shudder over every road imperfection and shake your kidneys. it does not lose its composure.
And that's the difference between a BMW and everything else.
There are other cars that can generate and even exceed some of the objective handling numbers of BMW (skidpad, etc). But to generate those numbers, the suspensions in those cars lose of their refinement.
My last car was a 2006 Infiniti M45 Sport. It could largely keep up with my 550 in the twisties....But the Infinit's suspension was a blunt and brutal instrument. It absolutely pounded you over every single bump, pothole and road imperfection. My passengers hated it. My passengers (and me) love my 550i Sport. It handles just as well if not better than the Infiniti in terms of grip and responsiveness. But it has a tight, and REFINED ride. It does not shudder over every road imperfection and shake your kidneys. it does not lose its composure.
And that's the difference between a BMW and everything else.
05-27-2009, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='892443' date='May 27 2009, 11:25 PM
I agree totally, there aren't too many competitors who know how to get the balance right between ride and handling - something BMW seems to do with ease. My Porsche is much the same. Unless I put the active suspension into sport mode, the ride is far from punishing but the handling is just terrific. Infiniti does come reasonably close to BMW as you said, but I definitely agree that it's at the expense of undue harshness in the ride. BMW has the bases covered here compared to its main competitors.
I have liked my BMWs tons more than my Infinitis but in terms of handling performance, the Infinitis are the next best thing. A definite number two but with handling that is superior to MB and Audi.
I also had a 1999 Saab 9-5 that handled like a pig.
Few would dispute that Porsches have just about the best handling on the planet. But living in Manhattan and paying $500 per month just to park my car, I can't afford a second car. So my car has to have 4 doors to meet all my needs and carry all my passengers (wife, son and Cavalier King Charles Spaniel). For that, the E60 fits the bill. And handles like crazy.
05-27-2009, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sdg1871' post='892452' date='May 27 2009, 11:34 PM
Depending on how my bank account has looked over the years, I've alternated between Infiniti and BMW -- 1996 Infiniti Q45t, 2003 BMW 540i Sport, 2006 Infiniti M45 Sport and 2009 BMW 550i Sport.
I have liked my BMWs tons more than my Infinitis but in terms of handling performance, the Infinitis are the next best thing. A definite number two but with handling that is superior to MB and Audi.
I also had a 1999 Saab 9-5 that handled like a pig.
Few would dispute that Porsches have just about the best handling on the planet. But living in Manhattan and paying $500 per month just to park my car, I can't afford a second car. So my car has to have 4 doors to meet all my needs and carry all my passengers (wife, son and Cavalier King Charles Spaniel). For that, the E60 fits the bill. And handles like crazy.
I have liked my BMWs tons more than my Infinitis but in terms of handling performance, the Infinitis are the next best thing. A definite number two but with handling that is superior to MB and Audi.
I also had a 1999 Saab 9-5 that handled like a pig.
Few would dispute that Porsches have just about the best handling on the planet. But living in Manhattan and paying $500 per month just to park my car, I can't afford a second car. So my car has to have 4 doors to meet all my needs and carry all my passengers (wife, son and Cavalier King Charles Spaniel). For that, the E60 fits the bill. And handles like crazy.
Seriously though, I think G37 Coupe is a much better car than my A6 was. Although I had a 2001 A6, it was a twin turbo and it moved and handled... or so I thought until I test-drove the G37 Coupe 6MT...
And props to whoever posted the specs on the 328, G37 and TL - that is one helluva arguement!
05-27-2009, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by v_therussian' post='892460' date='May 27 2009, 11:44 PM
Scott, Manhattan dwellers are exempt from this thread hahahahaaaaaa move to Brooklyn and start modding your car already
Seriously though, I think G37 Coupe is a much better car than my A6 was. Although I had a 2001 A6, it was a twin turbo and it moved and handled... or so I thought until I test-drove the G37 Coupe 6MT...
And props to whoever posted the specs on the 328, G37 and TL - that is one helluva arguement!
Seriously though, I think G37 Coupe is a much better car than my A6 was. Although I had a 2001 A6, it was a twin turbo and it moved and handled... or so I thought until I test-drove the G37 Coupe 6MT...
And props to whoever posted the specs on the 328, G37 and TL - that is one helluva arguement!
05-27-2009, 08:04 PM
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05-27-2009, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by v_therussian' post='892500' date='May 28 2009, 12:04 AM
That's like saying "I'd take an M3 over the 335 coupe" - of MUTHAFUHKEN course!!! No question about it. I test drove a 335 coupe with auto and no sport pack when it just came out - that's friggin FAST car. Haven't tried the new M3 yet tho... I think I should... 
now that's just some funny sheet
now that's just some funny sheet
05-27-2009, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by sdg1871' post='892452' date='May 27 2009, 08:34 PM
Depending on how my bank account has looked over the years, I've alternated between Infiniti and BMW -- 1996 Infiniti Q45t, 2003 BMW 540i Sport, 2006 Infiniti M45 Sport and 2009 BMW 550i Sport.
I have liked my BMWs tons more than my Infinitis but in terms of handling performance, the Infinitis are the next best thing. A definite number two but with handling that is superior to MB and Audi.
I also had a 1999 Saab 9-5 that handled like a pig.
Few would dispute that Porsches have just about the best handling on the planet. But living in Manhattan and paying $500 per month just to park my car, I can't afford a second car. So my car has to have 4 doors to meet all my needs and carry all my passengers (wife, son and Cavalier King Charles Spaniel). For that, the E60 fits the bill. And handles like crazy.
I have liked my BMWs tons more than my Infinitis but in terms of handling performance, the Infinitis are the next best thing. A definite number two but with handling that is superior to MB and Audi.
I also had a 1999 Saab 9-5 that handled like a pig.
Few would dispute that Porsches have just about the best handling on the planet. But living in Manhattan and paying $500 per month just to park my car, I can't afford a second car. So my car has to have 4 doors to meet all my needs and carry all my passengers (wife, son and Cavalier King Charles Spaniel). For that, the E60 fits the bill. And handles like crazy.