Why do BMWs handle better than cars from Mercedes-Benz and Audi?
05-26-2009, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by studavis' post='891402' date='May 27 2009, 02:48 AM
Well, jack ass statements aside, BMW is the only one of the three mentioned in the OP that has any sort of link to aviation engineering/design. BMW built some of the best aircraft engines in the world, including the world's first production turbojet that powered the ME 262 in 1944-45. Of the three companies, I was trying to make the argument that because BMW designed and built aviation components and powerplants, that the focus on engineering was from a vastly different perspective than that of MB and Audi and this is one of the reasons the BMW's handle better. I may be somewhat guilty of dumping on the talents of MB and Audi engineers, and for this I apologize.
As for the aviation and BMW, you're correct. But again, M-B and Audi have roots in precision engineering as well.
05-26-2009, 11:05 PM
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Does anything illustrate the Audi R8's handling better than this:
I'm gonna stop talking about Audi R8's now as it's somewhat OT for this thread, plus I'll make myself want to buy one.
I'm gonna stop talking about Audi R8's now as it's somewhat OT for this thread, plus I'll make myself want to buy one.
05-26-2009, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DD_545i' post='891412' date='May 27 2009, 03:05 AM
I'm gonna stop talking about Audi R8's now as it's somewhat OT for this thread, plus I'll make myself want to buy one.
05-26-2009, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by DD_545i' post='891383' date='May 27 2009, 01:32 AM
Totally agree.
No
Look at the subject title. It's about handling, which is about how the car "handles" around corners. A Lotus handles better than an Audi R8, which handles better than any standard road BMW, which handles better than the Viper being referred to that blasted the Nurburgring. Despite this handling hierarchy, the Lotus would come last when up against an R8 and a powerful BMW. Even the Audi R8 which handles way better than a Viper would be blown away by the Viper's power on those long straights.
You're agreeing with me 
No
Look at the subject title. It's about handling, which is about how the car "handles" around corners. A Lotus handles better than an Audi R8, which handles better than any standard road BMW, which handles better than the Viper being referred to that blasted the Nurburgring. Despite this handling hierarchy, the Lotus would come last when up against an R8 and a powerful BMW. Even the Audi R8 which handles way better than a Viper would be blown away by the Viper's power on those long straights.You're agreeing with me
Well, I am as far as the technicalities go, but I don't agree with the list you made up.
05-27-2009, 12:39 AM
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I'll add my 2 cents.
It's all because of auto magazines great bias toward BMW.
Just one example, I came across this post at e90post.com
about 328 vs g37 vs tl vs a4 (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265678)
Full C&D article is here (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st+page-5.html)
Surprise, surprise, 328i won the comparison. There's so much bias that I stopped reading auto magazines long time ago.
328i didn't outperform any of power/handling categories except gas mileage
and in the end, they said "we once again behold the definitive sports sedan."
What defines the best sports sedan? Performance numbers? price? size? gas mileage? oh I guess it's a gas mileage
The article mentioned " At the track, the Infiniti shamed the Bimmer in every contest except for skidpad (a tie)."
Read again, G37s SHAMED not just beat. They also mentioned how great drivetrain was.
Oh and forgot to mention, G37s has VLSD while 328i got nothing. Didn't we all say Quafie LSD is the best mod next to upgrade to M5?
How can professional drivers say non lsd equipped underpowered(and doesn't outhandle other cars) car is more of driver's car than
a car with vlsd, signicantly more power, better braking, same handling?
I just can't believe how can 328i "won" this comparison. and Look at the thread, people say 328i is still the "driver's car" even though
G37s outperformed. What is the definition of driver's car? How you feel? Actual performance? How can a magazine compare
several cars then throw all the numbers away and go by bmw feel? Then, what's the point of doing all the track testing if they are just
gonna select whatever they feel that is best? If they tested 335i then I completely agree with the magazine since 335i outperforms slightly
on pretty much every category. But 328i? give me a break.
I had 328i and g37s as loaner cars before. What you feel in 328i is not bmw feel, it's unrefinement compare to g37S.
The article summed up with saying "What the 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury"
Driving dynamics, again what method are they using? Last time I heard when you compare something, you rate based on performance on each product, and add
all the numbers each product scored and highest scored product wins. Apparently they do not. Luxury? the article mentioned, this 328i didn't even equipped
with leather and power seats and the verdict is 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury?
OK my post got really long, but what I wanted to say is that
auto mags are bias way beyond that they use special math formula where bmw logo will give extra 500 points.
And this is just ONE example.
It's all because of auto magazines great bias toward BMW.
Just one example, I came across this post at e90post.com
about 328 vs g37 vs tl vs a4 (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265678)
Full C&D article is here (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st+page-5.html)
Surprise, surprise, 328i won the comparison. There's so much bias that I stopped reading auto magazines long time ago.
328i didn't outperform any of power/handling categories except gas mileage
and in the end, they said "we once again behold the definitive sports sedan."
What defines the best sports sedan? Performance numbers? price? size? gas mileage? oh I guess it's a gas mileage
The article mentioned " At the track, the Infiniti shamed the Bimmer in every contest except for skidpad (a tie)."
Read again, G37s SHAMED not just beat. They also mentioned how great drivetrain was.
Oh and forgot to mention, G37s has VLSD while 328i got nothing. Didn't we all say Quafie LSD is the best mod next to upgrade to M5?
How can professional drivers say non lsd equipped underpowered(and doesn't outhandle other cars) car is more of driver's car than
a car with vlsd, signicantly more power, better braking, same handling?
I just can't believe how can 328i "won" this comparison. and Look at the thread, people say 328i is still the "driver's car" even though
G37s outperformed. What is the definition of driver's car? How you feel? Actual performance? How can a magazine compare
several cars then throw all the numbers away and go by bmw feel? Then, what's the point of doing all the track testing if they are just
gonna select whatever they feel that is best? If they tested 335i then I completely agree with the magazine since 335i outperforms slightly
on pretty much every category. But 328i? give me a break.
I had 328i and g37s as loaner cars before. What you feel in 328i is not bmw feel, it's unrefinement compare to g37S.
The article summed up with saying "What the 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury"
Driving dynamics, again what method are they using? Last time I heard when you compare something, you rate based on performance on each product, and add
all the numbers each product scored and highest scored product wins. Apparently they do not. Luxury? the article mentioned, this 328i didn't even equipped
with leather and power seats and the verdict is 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury?
OK my post got really long, but what I wanted to say is that
auto mags are bias way beyond that they use special math formula where bmw logo will give extra 500 points.
And this is just ONE example.
05-27-2009, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by uheenada' post='891430' date='May 27 2009, 04:39 AM
I'll add my 2 cents.
It's all because of auto magazines great bias toward BMW.
Just one example, I came across this post at e90post.com
about 328 vs g37 vs tl vs a4 (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265678)
Full C&D article is here (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st+page-5.html)
Surprise, surprise, 328i won the comparison. There's so much bias that I stopped reading auto magazines long time ago.
328i didn't outperform any of power/handling categories except gas mileage
and in the end, they said "we once again behold the definitive sports sedan."
What defines the best sports sedan? Performance numbers? price? size? gas mileage? oh I guess it's a gas mileage
The article mentioned " At the track, the Infiniti shamed the Bimmer in every contest except for skidpad (a tie)."
Read again, G37s SHAMED not just beat. They also mentioned how great drivetrain was.
Oh and forgot to mention, G37s has VLSD while 328i got nothing. Didn't we all say Quafie LSD is the best mod next to upgrade to M5?
How can professional drivers say non lsd equipped underpowered(and doesn't outhandle other cars) car is more of driver's car than
a car with vlsd, signicantly more power, better braking, same handling?
I just can't believe how can 328i "won" this comparison. and Look at the thread, people say 328i is still the "driver's car" even though
G37s outperformed. What is the definition of driver's car? How you feel? Actual performance? How can a magazine compare
several cars then throw all the numbers away and go by bmw feel? Then, what's the point of doing all the track testing if they are just
gonna select whatever they feel that is best? If they tested 335i then I completely agree with the magazine since 335i outperforms slightly
on pretty much every category. But 328i? give me a break.
I had 328i and g37s as loaner cars before. What you feel in 328i is not bmw feel, it's unrefinement compare to g37S.
The article summed up with saying "What the 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury"
Driving dynamics, again what method are they using? Last time I heard when you compare something, you rate based on performance on each product, and add
all the numbers each product scored and highest scored product wins. Apparently they do not. Luxury? the article mentioned, this 328i didn't even equipped
with leather and power seats and the verdict is 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury?
OK my post got really long, but what I wanted to say is that
auto mags are bias way beyond that they use special math formula where bmw logo will give extra 500 points.
And this is just ONE example.
It's all because of auto magazines great bias toward BMW.
Just one example, I came across this post at e90post.com
about 328 vs g37 vs tl vs a4 (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265678)
Full C&D article is here (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st+page-5.html)
Surprise, surprise, 328i won the comparison. There's so much bias that I stopped reading auto magazines long time ago.
328i didn't outperform any of power/handling categories except gas mileage
and in the end, they said "we once again behold the definitive sports sedan."
What defines the best sports sedan? Performance numbers? price? size? gas mileage? oh I guess it's a gas mileage
The article mentioned " At the track, the Infiniti shamed the Bimmer in every contest except for skidpad (a tie)."
Read again, G37s SHAMED not just beat. They also mentioned how great drivetrain was.
Oh and forgot to mention, G37s has VLSD while 328i got nothing. Didn't we all say Quafie LSD is the best mod next to upgrade to M5?
How can professional drivers say non lsd equipped underpowered(and doesn't outhandle other cars) car is more of driver's car than
a car with vlsd, signicantly more power, better braking, same handling?
I just can't believe how can 328i "won" this comparison. and Look at the thread, people say 328i is still the "driver's car" even though
G37s outperformed. What is the definition of driver's car? How you feel? Actual performance? How can a magazine compare
several cars then throw all the numbers away and go by bmw feel? Then, what's the point of doing all the track testing if they are just
gonna select whatever they feel that is best? If they tested 335i then I completely agree with the magazine since 335i outperforms slightly
on pretty much every category. But 328i? give me a break.
I had 328i and g37s as loaner cars before. What you feel in 328i is not bmw feel, it's unrefinement compare to g37S.
The article summed up with saying "What the 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury"
Driving dynamics, again what method are they using? Last time I heard when you compare something, you rate based on performance on each product, and add
all the numbers each product scored and highest scored product wins. Apparently they do not. Luxury? the article mentioned, this 328i didn't even equipped
with leather and power seats and the verdict is 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury?
OK my post got really long, but what I wanted to say is that
auto mags are bias way beyond that they use special math formula where bmw logo will give extra 500 points.
And this is just ONE example.
05-27-2009, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by craigm1841' post='891436' date='May 27 2009, 01:51 AM
why wouldnt they compare the g37 to a 335??????????????????????????????
stripped 328i!!!
328i in this comparison didn't even have the leather seats!!!!
05-27-2009, 01:06 AM
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I think some of you guys might have forgotten, the intial release of the R8 was quite a sedate and shall we say "typically safe Audi" on the limit, boring as I would call it, they revised the next batch with different suspension setups and differential wizardry to push more power to the rear, the "revised" R8 handles like a dream and looks and feels totaly awesome.
Here is a nice vid which shows the R8 in a nice light
Here is a nice vid which shows the R8 in a nice light
05-27-2009, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by uheenada' post='891430' date='May 27 2009, 03:39 AM
I'll add my 2 cents.
It's all because of auto magazines great bias toward BMW.
Just one example, I came across this post at e90post.com
about 328 vs g37 vs tl vs a4 (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265678)
Full C&D article is here (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st+page-5.html)
Surprise, surprise, 328i won the comparison. There's so much bias that I stopped reading auto magazines long time ago.
328i didn't outperform any of power/handling categories except gas mileage
and in the end, they said "we once again behold the definitive sports sedan."
What defines the best sports sedan? Performance numbers? price? size? gas mileage? oh I guess it's a gas mileage
The article mentioned " At the track, the Infiniti shamed the Bimmer in every contest except for skidpad (a tie)."
Read again, G37s SHAMED not just beat. They also mentioned how great drivetrain was.
Oh and forgot to mention, G37s has VLSD while 328i got nothing. Didn't we all say Quafie LSD is the best mod next to upgrade to M5?
How can professional drivers say non lsd equipped underpowered(and doesn't outhandle other cars) car is more of driver's car than
a car with vlsd, signicantly more power, better braking, same handling?
I just can't believe how can 328i "won" this comparison. and Look at the thread, people say 328i is still the "driver's car" even though
G37s outperformed. What is the definition of driver's car? How you feel? Actual performance? How can a magazine compare
several cars then throw all the numbers away and go by bmw feel? Then, what's the point of doing all the track testing if they are just
gonna select whatever they feel that is best? If they tested 335i then I completely agree with the magazine since 335i outperforms slightly
on pretty much every category. But 328i? give me a break.
I had 328i and g37s as loaner cars before. What you feel in 328i is not bmw feel, it's unrefinement compare to g37S.
The article summed up with saying "What the 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury"
Driving dynamics, again what method are they using? Last time I heard when you compare something, you rate based on performance on each product, and add
all the numbers each product scored and highest scored product wins. Apparently they do not. Luxury? the article mentioned, this 328i didn't even equipped
with leather and power seats and the verdict is 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury?
OK my post got really long, but what I wanted to say is that
auto mags are bias way beyond that they use special math formula where bmw logo will give extra 500 points.
And this is just ONE example.
It's all because of auto magazines great bias toward BMW.
Just one example, I came across this post at e90post.com
about 328 vs g37 vs tl vs a4 (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265678)
Full C&D article is here (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st+page-5.html)
Surprise, surprise, 328i won the comparison. There's so much bias that I stopped reading auto magazines long time ago.
328i didn't outperform any of power/handling categories except gas mileage
and in the end, they said "we once again behold the definitive sports sedan."
What defines the best sports sedan? Performance numbers? price? size? gas mileage? oh I guess it's a gas mileage
The article mentioned " At the track, the Infiniti shamed the Bimmer in every contest except for skidpad (a tie)."
Read again, G37s SHAMED not just beat. They also mentioned how great drivetrain was.
Oh and forgot to mention, G37s has VLSD while 328i got nothing. Didn't we all say Quafie LSD is the best mod next to upgrade to M5?
How can professional drivers say non lsd equipped underpowered(and doesn't outhandle other cars) car is more of driver's car than
a car with vlsd, signicantly more power, better braking, same handling?
I just can't believe how can 328i "won" this comparison. and Look at the thread, people say 328i is still the "driver's car" even though
G37s outperformed. What is the definition of driver's car? How you feel? Actual performance? How can a magazine compare
several cars then throw all the numbers away and go by bmw feel? Then, what's the point of doing all the track testing if they are just
gonna select whatever they feel that is best? If they tested 335i then I completely agree with the magazine since 335i outperforms slightly
on pretty much every category. But 328i? give me a break.
I had 328i and g37s as loaner cars before. What you feel in 328i is not bmw feel, it's unrefinement compare to g37S.
The article summed up with saying "What the 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury"
Driving dynamics, again what method are they using? Last time I heard when you compare something, you rate based on performance on each product, and add
all the numbers each product scored and highest scored product wins. Apparently they do not. Luxury? the article mentioned, this 328i didn't even equipped
with leather and power seats and the verdict is 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury?
OK my post got really long, but what I wanted to say is that
auto mags are bias way beyond that they use special math formula where bmw logo will give extra 500 points.
And this is just ONE example.
05-27-2009, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by E60714' post='891448' date='May 27 2009, 02:07 AM
Well, I think the reputation comes from the drivers themselves, not just the magazines. The best car in those tests isn't always the one that is the fastest, most powerful one, but maybe just which is more fun to drive. I think I would find my 535 is more fun to drive than an E500 though it isn't as fast.
328i is more expensive, doesn't even have the leather seats, no sat radio, no power seats AND
underpowered, worse brakes. Only thing 328i is better is fuel economy.
Maybe a lot of people can bare with those but I certainly not. I can't imagine to drive $37k car
without leather and power seats.