heezy545i

I agree. No need to jump on the guys back just because he's a little quote happy.

If Znod works on the quotes and doesn't embed his replies in other quotes, everyone should be happy.

znod

I agree. No need to jump on the guys back just because he's a little quote happy.

If Znod works on the quotes and doesn't embed his replies in other quotes, everyone should be happy.
[/quote]Right. Rudy came up with a great solution--which satisfied everyone including me, and I have used it a lot. This is the reason I say that the discussion worked out well between me and the others. I had never had issue taken with what I was doing before on other forums. But, whatever, it all has been worked out now for quite a while. And, note that the thread was aimed at a perceived large increase in quote usage and not at me in particular. I just got involved in the discussion, and the embedding issue came up. And, the discussion didn't really imply that I specifically was using too many quotes, but I was using my share--that's for sure. Note that I have been stripping out excessive quote material since I started posting here.

cobradav

I am following up on the above points in orange. What I am doing below is complicated so ask if you have a question. I am leaving out some calculations to keep the data from being too detailed.

1. There are 807 revs per mile given 275 / 30-19 rear tires.
2. At 60 mph one would do a mile a minute, or 807 tire revs per minute.
3. If the effective rear-end is 1:1, then a mile a minute would take 807 engine RPM.
4. Given an effective rear-end ratio of 2.3322:1 (as for my car in 6th gear), then 60 MPH would take 2.3322(807)] = 1,882.0854 RPM
5. Given the above, it the car could turn 6,500, then its top speed would be 60(6,500 / 1,882.0854) = 207.216952

Thus, given the effective 545i rear-end ratio of my 545i (2.3322--not calculated here) and assuming that a 545i actually gets to 6,500 when shifting:

Pattern A:
Top speed in 1st gear would be 207.216952(2.3322 / 14.0946 (i.e., my first gear ratio) = 34.288
Top speed in 2nd gear would be 207.216952(2.3322 / 7.9092 (i.e., my second gear ratio) = 61.102

However, let's say a 545i only gets to 6,375 when shifting--which might be consistent with my recollection/observation in orange above. Then:

Pattern B:
Top speed in 1st gear would be 6,375 / 6,500(34.288) = 33.629
Top speed in 2nd gear would be (6,375 / 6,500)61.102 = 59.923

Now, consider the RPM and torque decreases for the two patterns--noting that there are too many calculations involved to explain everything.

RPM and Torque Decreases--Pattern A:
RPM Decrease for First to Second Shift: 6,500 X 2.34 / 4.17 = 3,648. Related Torque Decrease: 311 ft. lb.
RPM Decrease for Second to Third Shift: 6,500 X 1.52 / 2.34 = 4,222. Related Torque Decrease: 112 ft. lb.

RPM and Torque Decreases--Pattern B:
RPM Decrease for First to Second Shift: 6,375 X 2.34 / 4.17 = 3,648. Related Torque Decrease: 345 ft. lb.
RPM Decrease for Second to Third Shift: 6,375 X 1.52 / 2.34 = 4,222. Related Torque Decrease: 128 ft. lb.*

(*Actually, these decreases are a tad too large. I used the values for 6,400 RPM, rather than, 6,375 RPM because I didn't want to go back to my torque graph and recalculate.)

So, the final calculational points are that if the Step actually is shifting early at about 6,375 RPM, then when it shifts to second it loses about 18 ft. lb. [(345-128) - (311-112)] more torque than if it had shifted at 6,500 RPM. Similarly, under the same conditions, the Step also would lose about 8 ft. lbs. [(128-46) - (112-38)] more torque when shifting from second to third.

The above calculations imply several things. First, shifting at redline is optimal for a 545i. Second, if the Step shifts early then some torque definitely is lost and acceleration times and speeds will suffer accordingly. Unfortuantely, it is difficult to quantify how this loss might translate into reductions in 0 to whatever times, etc. Maybe grogan can help here. Third, if the step shifts so early that it shifts before 60 MPH, then 0 to 60 times will be hurt noticeably IMO. Fourth, the discussions imply that I was premature and had not thought completely about the issue when I said above: "But, it would not explain my very poor 1/8 times." That is, as shown, premature shifting defintely would affect everything beginning with the shift from first to second.
[/quote]


Here is matrix with various combos (trannies/rear end) that were appropriate for the specs as of MY2005 specs by BMW.

I am also wondering if possibly the 20.01 problem is known by BMW techs in service centers. I was in for upgrade due to no VR (a fault that started about three weeks ago) and both tech and SA said they had 20.01. Yet as you can see in my "Status" report it appears they were trying to upgrade me to 19.02.03 (known by Target Data Status = 05-09-535). As you can also see they found bad CID and had to order (on national back order) so process wais aborted, car returned and I wait to be rescheduled. Tech was not available when I picked up car so I do not know answer (SA is not "qualified" in his words) why ONLY 19.02.03. Again, is it something they know??? I will press for more info when I go back. I recommend all who get software upgrade demand a copy of Status Report (it is at least 2 pages and could be more). Other terms that may be used by BMW techs/shops are Measures Plan and or Final Report. The Measures Plan is the diagnostic they run prior to actually doing the software upgrade as they need to test the ?as is? status and ensure no hardware faults prior to beginning the long upgrade process. I make my request up front when car goes in so there is a clear expectation of what I am looking for. My report was lost by the office processing the paperwork because they were not expecting a "technical" document to be included. SA said yes it was requested by Mr. Cobra so please recover it. They did.

And just one more thing. Znod is doing what a lot of us should be - taking the time to be thorough in his knowledge of his car and the impacts various changes have on his car (including software) and then reporting his findings for the common good of us all. I find it invaluable in keeping current and I would think others would as well. The fact that he or others may stray off topic has to be expected now and then ? we all do (am I doing it now??? No, ok). But even then the slight stray was to point out a validation process in ensuring the testing and measurement process was not at fault. All part of a good, sound TS process. If others of us would be so careful we would be more likely to be stating fact rather than conjecture based on seat of the pants input, although how many times has seat of the pants been more than just placebo effect? Just my $0.02 worth. Keep the data / information flowing, please

znod

I definitely will try to get the report. I will call today tell my SA that the problem is not going away, to mention the report and that I would like a copy, and to set up an appointment--unless you have advice to the contrary.
Thanks cd. I'll keep adding any thing I find out, calculate, or whatever.l

znod

Hi All:

Using key number two apparently is not even a temporary fix--as expected. I did one 50 degree 1/8 this morning with my results being almost exactly like the ones I posted yesterday. I probably will try one more time, but I think there is little point. But, you've got to give miracles a chance to happen (without really caring one way or the other IMO).

I want to add that, while, I am looking closely at the Step's shifting and the possible inability to completely turn DSC/DTC off, I don't think that we should dismiss the possibility of an intentional or inadvertent detune. I say this because, while I have had some 20.01.00 HP readings consistent with 19.01.01, they often are less by 20 or so HP when temperatures are comparable. Still, such observations could occur if either Step shifting or DSC/DTC is the problem--especially since the GT2's HP readings are produced before 60 MPH is reached.

grogan545

I find Znod's posts to be very informative and not confusing.I believe this thread started with possible performance problems with 20.01.If all posts stuck to this subject matter this thread would be a lot shorter and less confusing.I don't know why anyone who is not interested in the subject would bother reading 7 posting in this thread.
[/quote]Thanks grogan. Someone else, I think, once said my posts are confusing. Go figure. What did you mean by "would bother reading 7 posting in this thread?" I didn't get it. (Edit: Oh, maybe you meant 7 pages of postings. I think even now there are only 5 pages though if this is what you mean. )
[/quote]

Sorry Znod nothing more than a stupid typo.I meant to say reading & posting(forgot the CAP key).
Still disecting your post #66,mill be gone untill later this evening then I will have some input.

SolarFactory

I just got v20 yesterday. I'm no going to comment on speed or 0-60 times or anything else you guys are discussing in this thread because I don't read about that stuff or follow those figures the way some of you seem to and I don't have the knowledge to comment on such things. I will say though that after going from v18 to v20, my shifts seem smoother and active steering feels better.

Just my 2 cents.

cobradav

Very interesting conjecture cd. I wonder too. Do you have suggestions about how to proceed other than what you already have said? Do you think, as I have mentioned, that it is a good idea to make an appointment to get the complaint in writing? And, would you keep coming back when the problem is not solved? What about coming back three times (or is it 5 times), in a short period, to try to gain some sort of lemon-law status? How would BMW be able to "duplicate" the problem?

I think you do go back to BMW Service to document your findings and concern. A good shop should submit a PuMA case to give BMW factory engineers a chance to review and comment. Could be as you conjecture (another post?) a "Planned" detune, or unintended consequence of another tweak somewhere. I realize we do not want to be guinea pigs for BMW but often times it cannot be helped. We have to help BMW help us - but I am well aware this may not be shared opinion by other members.


Thanks cd. I'll keep adding any thing I find out, calculate, or whatever.l
[/quote]

Stay the course

znod

Great. I'll look forward to what you have to say.

znod

I am expecting a call from my SA. I mentioned the report on his answering machine.

Don't know how to do anything else.