znod

I am avoiding the later, but, other than that, I feel exactly as you do. We have been gipped inadvertently or otherwise.

Good luck on a response. Have you scheduled an appointment to put the issue on the record officially and to give the techs a chance to solve the problem? How do we get BMW to duplicate our problem. Obviously, one can't. BMW would have had to start the duplication process before the problem began--since before and after tests would be required. I think our situation may end up being described as a "BMW snafu catch 22"--assuming nothing nefarious is going on.

grogan545

Wow...don't know how to respond to that...paranoid?

A few minutes ago this post said you had nothing more to say to me (imagine my relief), and then you edit your post. At least you're consistent--another confusing post. Talk about being annoying (using your word)--to quote a well-respected forum member (do you think he is very confused as well?):

Znod, with all due respect, your posts are the most confusing I've read on this board.

And now they've gone from confusing to being insulting--not a good trend. :thumbsdown:
[/quote]

I find Znod's posts to be very informative and not confusing.I believe this thread started with possible performance problems with 20.01.If all posts stuck to this subject matter this thread would be a lot shorter and less confusing.I don't know why anyone who is not interested in the subject would bother reading 7 posting in this thread.

znod

I find Znod's posts to be very informative and not confusing.I believe this thread started with possible performance problems with 20.01.If all posts stuck to this subject matter this thread would be a lot shorter and less confusing.I don't know why anyone who is not interested in the subject would bother reading 7 posting in this thread.
[/quote]Thanks grogan. Someone else, I think, once said my posts are confusing. Go figure. What did you mean by "would bother reading 7 posting in this thread?" I didn't get it. (Edit: Oh, maybe you meant 7 pages of postings. I think even now there are only 5 pages though if this is what you mean. )

stream

And he continued, in that same post:
Again, I'm not trying to blast you here but I've got to be honest -- lately, I've pretty much stopped reading your posts because if I can't easily figure out what you're saying, I generally choose to just move on and spend my time reading something that makes sense...

Followed by another board member, who said:
And with all respect...
The above post is just one of those I am not reading anymore.

Like my post above, which began with:
Not to get on your case,


All not trying to be mean spirited, just trying to drop a hint...

http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=20937

ipse dixit

And he continued, in that same post:
Again, I'm not trying to blast you here but I've got to be honest -- lately, I've pretty much stopped reading your posts because if I can't easily figure out what you're saying, I generally choose to just move on and spend my time reading something that makes sense...

Followed by another board member, who said:
And with all respect...
The above post is just one of those I am not reading anymore.

Like my post above, which began with:
Not to get on your case,


All not trying to be mean spirited, just trying to drop a hint...

http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=20937
[/quote]


I believe calling Znod's posts "confusing" is inapt, and in reality a lazy way of saying his posts are (1) very detailed; (2) didactic; (3) sometimes a bit esoteric; (4) and more often than not (whether we would like to admit it or not), quite informative.

Confusing? No. One, some, or all of the above? Yes.

And, as an aside, some of the quotes referenced re: Znod are taken a bit out of context IMO.

Cheers.

znod

And, in my Z06 excitement, I forgot to mention that I was unable to determine if the shift from second to third was at least partially responsible for at least my poor zero to 60 time. If my recollection is correct, our speedometers read a little fast, and my car appeared to start shifting at about 61 MPH. If my recollection is correct, then it could have started shifting before I actually reached 60 MPH--which would influence my zero to sixty time very negatively. But, it would not explain my very poor 1/8 times.
[/quote]
I am following up on the above points in orange. What I am doing below is complicated so ask if you have a question. I am leaving out some calculations to keep the data from being too detailed.

1. There are 807 revs per mile given 275 / 30-19 rear tires.
2. At 60 mph one would do a mile a minute, or 807 tire revs per minute.
3. If the effective rear-end is 1:1, then a mile a minute would take 807 engine RPM.
4. Given an effective rear-end ratio of 2.3322:1 (as for my car in 6th gear), then 60 MPH would take 2.3322(807)] = 1,882.0854 RPM
5. Given the above, it the car could turn 6,500, then its top speed would be 60(6,500 / 1,882.0854) = 207.216952

Thus, given the effective 545i rear-end ratio of my 545i (2.3322--not calculated here) and assuming that a 545i actually gets to 6,500 when shifting:

Pattern A:
Top speed in 1st gear would be 207.216952(2.3322 / 14.0946 (i.e., my first gear ratio) = 34.288
Top speed in 2nd gear would be 207.216952(2.3322 / 7.9092 (i.e., my second gear ratio) = 61.102

However, let's say a 545i only gets to 6,375 when shifting--which might be consistent with my recollection/observation in orange above. Then:

Pattern B:
Top speed in 1st gear would be 6,375 / 6,500(34.288) = 33.629
Top speed in 2nd gear would be (6,375 / 6,500)61.102 = 59.923

Now, consider the RPM and torque decreases for the two patterns--noting that there are too many calculations involved to explain everything.

RPM and Torque Decreases--Pattern A:
RPM Decrease for First to Second Shift: 6,500 X 2.34 / 4.17 = 3,648. Related Torque Decrease: 311 ft. lb.
RPM Decrease for Second to Third Shift: 6,500 X 1.52 / 2.34 = 4,222. Related Torque Decrease: 112 ft. lb.

RPM and Torque Decreases--Pattern B:
RPM Decrease for First to Second Shift: 6,375 X 2.34 / 4.17 = 3,648. Related Torque Decrease: 345 ft. lb.
RPM Decrease for Second to Third Shift: 6,375 X 1.52 / 2.34 = 4,222. Related Torque Decrease: 128 ft. lb.*

(*Actually, these decreases are a tad too large. I used the values for 6,400 RPM, rather than, 6,375 RPM because I didn't want to go back to my torque graph and recalculate.)

So, the final calculational points are that if the Step actually is shifting early at about 6,375 RPM, then when it shifts to second it loses about 18 ft. lb. [(345-128) - (311-112)] more torque than if it had shifted at 6,500 RPM. Similarly, under the same conditions, the Step also would lose about 8 ft. lbs. [(128-46) - (112-38)] more torque when shifting from second to third.

The above calculations imply several things. First, shifting at redline is optimal for a 545i. Second, if the Step shifts early then some torque definitely is lost and acceleration times and speeds will suffer accordingly. Unfortuantely, it is difficult to quantify how such loses might translate into reductions in 0 to whatever times, etc. But, it probably wouldn't be unrealistic to think that possible losses calculated above might cost several tenths in 1/8 mile. Maybe grogan can help here. Third, if the step shifts so early that it shifts before 60 MPH, then 0 to 60 times will be hurt noticeably IMO. Fourth, the discussions imply that I was premature and had not thought completely about the issue when I said above: "But, it would not explain my very poor 1/8 times." That is, as shown, premature shifting defintely would affect everything beginning with the shift from first to second.

znod

Thanks, ipse d. I knew, or at least though, that "one, some, and all" as mentioned above, probably were the real problems when the "confusing" issue came up in the first place--given that I was interspering my replies. I didn't reply to the "confusing" part. And, yes, the quotes are somewhat out of context. Here is the whole thread again. I participated in it extensively. I thought my part of it worked out well in relation to the others. And, for some more "one, some, and all," check out the prior thread. Maybe you can add to the issue I mentioned that grogan might help on.

EBMCS03

Wow lots of time and effort put into this... Ya you have a point... it can ver well be the car shifting a tad early...

znod

Thanks for reading. I like doing these sorts of things. In one way are another, doing this sort of thing is how I keep our boat afloat.

stream

I'll agree you "participated in it extensively."

As for the comment that your part of it "worked out well"... that's an interesting perspective...

I'm getting another one of those headaches...