Update on Performance Woes from 20.01.00
01-27-2006, 11:53 AM
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Hi Friends:
If you are not familiar with my original post about 20.01.00's performance effects, then you may want to read this thread first and then come back to this one. Today my ace SA had me talk to one of my (excellent) dealer's ace shop foremen today, and the latter had me come in today on a drop-in basis. He is a performance oriented guy, and knows a great deal. Below is what I have learned.
First, one cannot backup on updates. So, if you are performance oriented, I suggest that you exercise great caution in deciding to update to 20+.
Second, we took a test drive in my car after I showed the comparative performance data given below. He was surprised that he could not break my wheels loose, etc. He says that the only hope of the car regaining its lost performance is through the learning ability of the Steptronic (which actually may involve more than just the tranny's shift points, fuel map used, etc.) or a future update. He says that BMW's engineers do not provide much insight about how extensive our car's learning abilities are.
My own view is that our cars learning abilities may be significant. This observation has to be true if my observations on my car under 19.01.01 are typically. As mentiioned in the earlier thread, my first acceleration tests were disappointing under 19.01.01, but, over time, my results improved dramatically. Of course, I hope that is the way things will work under 20.01.00. As with my Z06, it may be true that you have to put your car's pedal to the floor with some frequency to keep its performance optimized.
The foreman also kept the comparative performance results that I took with me so he could talk to a BMW engineer about them and his test drive. The engineer with be my dealer's shop on Monday. I will be talking with the foreman soon.
The results I took with me are below. I intend to keep updating this thread with similar comparative results assuming my car begins to learn and, thus, improves. Today, doing only one run, I was able to beat my best from yesterday--the 5.5 zero to 60 time I got having done a number of runs. The JPEG below shows some of the results of my better 19.01.01 tests along with today's test results. Note that the only reason for a poor result once my car got going under 19.01.01 was excessive wheel spin. The result from today is with zero wheel spin--since I still still can't break my wheels loose on a decent surface. If you notice any results or possible implications, then bring them up, and I'll say what I think/know. Many of the possible implications already are discussed in the thread linked above.
If you are not familiar with my original post about 20.01.00's performance effects, then you may want to read this thread first and then come back to this one. Today my ace SA had me talk to one of my (excellent) dealer's ace shop foremen today, and the latter had me come in today on a drop-in basis. He is a performance oriented guy, and knows a great deal. Below is what I have learned.
First, one cannot backup on updates. So, if you are performance oriented, I suggest that you exercise great caution in deciding to update to 20+.
Second, we took a test drive in my car after I showed the comparative performance data given below. He was surprised that he could not break my wheels loose, etc. He says that the only hope of the car regaining its lost performance is through the learning ability of the Steptronic (which actually may involve more than just the tranny's shift points, fuel map used, etc.) or a future update. He says that BMW's engineers do not provide much insight about how extensive our car's learning abilities are.
My own view is that our cars learning abilities may be significant. This observation has to be true if my observations on my car under 19.01.01 are typically. As mentiioned in the earlier thread, my first acceleration tests were disappointing under 19.01.01, but, over time, my results improved dramatically. Of course, I hope that is the way things will work under 20.01.00. As with my Z06, it may be true that you have to put your car's pedal to the floor with some frequency to keep its performance optimized.
The foreman also kept the comparative performance results that I took with me so he could talk to a BMW engineer about them and his test drive. The engineer with be my dealer's shop on Monday. I will be talking with the foreman soon.
The results I took with me are below. I intend to keep updating this thread with similar comparative results assuming my car begins to learn and, thus, improves. Today, doing only one run, I was able to beat my best from yesterday--the 5.5 zero to 60 time I got having done a number of runs. The JPEG below shows some of the results of my better 19.01.01 tests along with today's test results. Note that the only reason for a poor result once my car got going under 19.01.01 was excessive wheel spin. The result from today is with zero wheel spin--since I still still can't break my wheels loose on a decent surface. If you notice any results or possible implications, then bring them up, and I'll say what I think/know. Many of the possible implications already are discussed in the thread linked above.
01-27-2006, 12:01 PM
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Znod: Great details.. You should work for an automobile magazine company (that is, if you don't already)!!
Keep us posted.
Keep us posted.
01-27-2006, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ipse dixit' post='230620' date='Jan 27 2006, 04:25 PM
Znod's dealership and the SA's great customer service.
01-27-2006, 01:11 PM
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Please keep us informed with your findings. I've had my car recently upgraded to 20.01 also and wasn't blown away when receiving the car back from service as I was with past upgrades. It always felt so much faster comming from a slower loaner car, but not this time.
01-27-2006, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Lomag' post='230645' date='Jan 27 2006, 05:11 PM
Please keep us informed with your findings. I've had my car recently upgraded to 20.01 also and wasn't blown away when receiving the car back from service as I was with past upgrades. It always felt so much faster comming from a slower loaner car, but not this time.
01-27-2006, 04:11 PM
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Next Up: Xenon fogs, Eisemann Exhaust, iPod Interface, Comfort Seats.
I got the 20.01 upgrade today, and my SA knew nothing. Went up the chain and was told that the only real difference I would "feel" would be with active steering, which is tighter (more BMW-like) now.
However, my car is not as responsive: it doesn't scoot ahead as nimbly as before. While I have not done the scientific research that Znod has, my view is purely based on feel. And I can say this: so far, the car is slower, and not as responsive on the throttle. The shift points seem lower, and the car overall feels heavier.
My hope is that my car will "learn", and do so quickly, because it's current performance is not what I bought when I got my 545. It had better improve.
However, my car is not as responsive: it doesn't scoot ahead as nimbly as before. While I have not done the scientific research that Znod has, my view is purely based on feel. And I can say this: so far, the car is slower, and not as responsive on the throttle. The shift points seem lower, and the car overall feels heavier.
My hope is that my car will "learn", and do so quickly, because it's current performance is not what I bought when I got my 545. It had better improve.
01-27-2006, 04:34 PM
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WHAT! are you guys serious? this many people reporting slower car after v20+? I'm definetly NOT getting it then...
Sure its not just your heads messing with you after reading Znod's posts??
Znod: PLEASE keep us updated...
Sure its not just your heads messing with you after reading Znod's posts??
Znod: PLEASE keep us updated...
01-27-2006, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by EBMCS03' post='230739' date='Jan 27 2006, 08:34 PM
WHAT! are you guys serious? this many people reporting slower car after v20+? I'm definetly NOT getting it then...
Sure its not just your heads messing with you after reading Znod's posts??
Znod: PLEASE keep us updated...
Sure its not just your heads messing with you after reading Znod's posts??
Znod: PLEASE keep us updated...
01-27-2006, 06:24 PM
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[/quote]
Now you have me really worried.There is no way I update to 20.01 until I am positve it will not affect performance.I can't believe a company that has built its reputation on performance would deliberatley detune our 545's.I thought maybe Znods numbers were just a fluke and would return to expected times soon,but with Lomag & others noticing a decrease in performance with 20.01 I believe it might be intentional change in the software.Possibly Znod is correct in that the DTC/DTS is not fully disengaged which would kill the low speed performance.I am anxious to here what the engineer has to say I am sure Znod will keep us meticulously informed.
I am also very impressed with your SA Znod.I would not have the confidence to approach my SA with my performance numbers.I just don't get the feeling my Dealer would look kindly on me showing him how many 0-80 runs I have made,and me complaining to him that I can't smoke the tires like I did with earlier software updates.
Originally Posted by Znod' post='230590' date='Jan 27 2006, 03:53 PM
Hi Friends:
If you are not familiar with my original post about 20.01.00's performance effects, then you may want to read this thread first and then come back to this one. Today my ace SA had me talk to one of my (excellent) dealer's ace shop foremen today, and the latter had me come in today on a drop-in basis. He is a performance oriented guy, and knows a great deal. Below is what I have learned.
First, one cannot backup on updates. So, if you are performance oriented, I suggest that you exercise great caution in deciding to update to 20+.
Second, we took a test drive in my car after I showed the comparative performance data given below. He was surprised that he could not break my wheels loose, etc. He says that the only hope of the car regaining its lost performance is through the learning ability of the Steptronic (which actually may involve more than just the tranny's shift points, fuel map used, etc.) or a future update. He says that BMW's engineers do not provide much insight about how extensive our car's learning abilities are.
My own view is that our cars learning abilities may be significant. This observation has to be true if my observations on my car under 19.01.01 are typically. As mentiioned in the earlier thread, my first accelearation tests were disappointing under 19.01.01, but, over time, my results improved dramatically. Of course, I hope that is the way things will work under 20.01.00. As with my Z06, it may be true that you have to put your car's pedal to the floor with some frequency to keep its performance optimized.
The foreman also kept the comparative performance results that I took with me so he could talk to a BMW engineer about them and his test drive. The engineer with be my dealer's shop on Monday. I will be talking with the foreman soon.
The results I took with me are below. I intend to keep updating this thread with similar comparative results assuming my car begins to learn and, thus, improves. Today, doing only one run, I was able to beat my best from yesterday--the 5.5 zero to 60 time I got having done a number of runs. The JPEG below shows some of the results of my better 19.01.01 tests along with today's test results. Note that the only reason for a poor result once my car got going under 19.01.01 was excessive wheel spin. The result from today is with zero wheel spin--since I still still can't break my wheels loose on a decent surface. If you notice any results or possible implications, then bring them up, and I'll say what I think/know. Many of the possible implications already are discussed in the thread linked above.
If you are not familiar with my original post about 20.01.00's performance effects, then you may want to read this thread first and then come back to this one. Today my ace SA had me talk to one of my (excellent) dealer's ace shop foremen today, and the latter had me come in today on a drop-in basis. He is a performance oriented guy, and knows a great deal. Below is what I have learned.
First, one cannot backup on updates. So, if you are performance oriented, I suggest that you exercise great caution in deciding to update to 20+.
Second, we took a test drive in my car after I showed the comparative performance data given below. He was surprised that he could not break my wheels loose, etc. He says that the only hope of the car regaining its lost performance is through the learning ability of the Steptronic (which actually may involve more than just the tranny's shift points, fuel map used, etc.) or a future update. He says that BMW's engineers do not provide much insight about how extensive our car's learning abilities are.
My own view is that our cars learning abilities may be significant. This observation has to be true if my observations on my car under 19.01.01 are typically. As mentiioned in the earlier thread, my first accelearation tests were disappointing under 19.01.01, but, over time, my results improved dramatically. Of course, I hope that is the way things will work under 20.01.00. As with my Z06, it may be true that you have to put your car's pedal to the floor with some frequency to keep its performance optimized.
The foreman also kept the comparative performance results that I took with me so he could talk to a BMW engineer about them and his test drive. The engineer with be my dealer's shop on Monday. I will be talking with the foreman soon.
The results I took with me are below. I intend to keep updating this thread with similar comparative results assuming my car begins to learn and, thus, improves. Today, doing only one run, I was able to beat my best from yesterday--the 5.5 zero to 60 time I got having done a number of runs. The JPEG below shows some of the results of my better 19.01.01 tests along with today's test results. Note that the only reason for a poor result once my car got going under 19.01.01 was excessive wheel spin. The result from today is with zero wheel spin--since I still still can't break my wheels loose on a decent surface. If you notice any results or possible implications, then bring them up, and I'll say what I think/know. Many of the possible implications already are discussed in the thread linked above.