LeMansBlau

Wastegate airlines are made from metal, so either you should machine "grind" those channels as much there is possible to take of. (That's how i did it)
Or if you wanna do it a way that it's for sure that there is enough space, then you should change a independent bigger wastegate.
Sorry my pour english of this one...it's hard to write you about glossary of tecnical car words.

Puricele7e

I kind of understand, no problem......I'll have to think about reconditioning the big turbo (if I decide to up the power of the car), if I do, I think they'll recondition the wastegate as well (I hope )
Thanks for the help!

Puricele7e

Problem solved.......After changing the engine, both electric valves, new hoses (original ones from BMW, in the right color :-P ), the vacuum pump, and having to buy a new ECU + the newest software, my car reached 260kmh yesterday evening.....
Finally......

To be honest, I don't know which one of the parts was actually causing the problem.....

(No, I didn't change the engine only because of this ).....

Greetings from Munich
Vlad

Puricele7e

Wrong thread, bud

dvdcore

I have replaced all the vacuum hoses with new silicone ones bought from Germany.
Limp mode is still there

At least in the process, i noticed that immediately after i turn the engine off, the two pressure converters are vibrating and producing an annoying electric sound for around 1 minute.
I have changed these a couple of years ago just for safety, so i will try placing the old ones and see what happens.

@Puricele7e As i've done more runs on the highway i noticed the limp mode is not triggered at same speed/revs each time . After i clean the ECU logs and going on the first attempt, i go to 230 (error is recorded at 3999rpm, immediately after shifting from 4th to 5th). Then i turn off the engine and on the 2nd run i don't exceed 210-220 (error at 3700+ rpm), and the 3d time the limp mode is even earlier at 190-200 kph.

Each time the 2.510 bar pressure limit is touched. Obviously on the first attempt, the charged-air temperature was lower thus the pressure having a lower value as well.

An interesting thing i checked in the DIS diagnosis tool, is that at the moment of the error, the Wastegate valve indicates a value of 4.7%. I do not know if the value is opened or closed.

For sure there is a problem on the wastegate side :
1. either it is not opening enough (mechanical problem on the wastegate). Going to check it a turbo repair service.
2. The ECU does not open it enough due to some pressure/temp calculations from other sensors.
3. There is not enough vacuum to open the wastegate, from the pressure converter or from the vacuum pump.
4. Considering the above, I am wondering if a larger IC would solved the wastegate issue, or it would just delay the number of high speed attempts:
Tiago has managed to install this intercooler on his 535d touring 442hp
http://www.wagner-tuning.co.uk/bmw-3...r-kit-48-p.asp

Also on the last attempts, DIS indicates a MAF air sensor problem, saying actual value is higher than measured one, and it's triggered at the same time with the high-pressure error when the limp mode goes on. I checked the live MAF data, and on throttle accelerations over 2500rpm in idle, the actual value is around 50% more than the measured value. MAF was also changed some time ago, so this is quite strage. I suspect this is caused by the ECU being remapped.

Though i'm driving fast rarely, when the moment arrives the limp mode is really annoying especially when the power delivery is encouraging to drive faster. I met recently a F10 M5 on the highway, and didn't seem that fast as i thought it would be. Of course it pulled constantly in head of me, but something similar to what it does to an E60 M5.

I will try more things and keep you posted. I also invite other 535d owners to post their solutions if found any.

Puricele7e

Ooops, I forgot...I changed the MAF as well

If you don't change it until summer arrives and I'll visit Romania again, we could make a test run with my new MAF on your car, to see if that's the problem.....

I don't know if the mechanic did anything with the turbo while changing the engine (he did say my big turbo had some play though, and recommended I rebuild it sometime soon....), but sometimes, it takes really just a small input to set the wastegate free, so.....who knows?
Tested the car full throttle on the autobahn again, and some laps of the Nurbrugring, and until now, all has gone well Hopefully it will stay that way.....

Another thought.....modern diesels seem to clog up the intercooler (and the piping) with some amount of oil.....I'm thinking....maybe you could disconnect one of the charge pipes of the intercooler, just to inspect if everything is clean in there? Not that (at your km, the intercooler would be clogged up with oil and then no further cooling for the charge air is provided?)

Davajn

Im playing with the thought that we are seeing alot of combined small problems adding up to irregular boost problems.
What i mean with this is that the wastegate is #1 to small for the preassure output. #2 The vakuum lines might be to complicated/small and to restrictive.
#3 the wastegates might be of various quality...
#4 More boost = More temprature & Higher air density.

As Puricele7e also says its insane how much oil/clogging these new diesels do in the intake system.
Could it be that we need to install a Oil catch can kit?

Its a normal installation on high performance gasoline cars. But they do it due to its lowering the octane ratio in the fuel blend. But for us it maybe just a clogging problem that "maybe" spreads to the vakuum system. Have someone seen if there is oil contamination in the vakuum hooses/vakuum preassure regulators?
Oil clogging can also cause problems for the MAF sensor. Might be enough with a MAF sensor cleaning spray!

Id like to know more information on that intercooler Kit. Does this Tiago has some pictures of when he installed it. How much trouble was it etc etc?
442hp on a 535d, yeah i could live with that

Puricele7e

Nope, the vacuum hoses etc, were absolutely clean, on both my cars....I don't know if they can get clogged up, maybe only if the vacuum pump would fail, but you would of course notice if that happens...

Just as a side-thought :
Dvdcore, did you ever change your "oil breather"-filter? (cyclone-filter?) BMW changed from a cartridge filter (like the oil filter, only much smaller), to a centrifugal unit (cyclone) which is maintainance-free, only to recommend changing back to the first type of filter, replacing it every 3 oil changes.

Both my E60s have the cyclone, and I'm planning on running them both with better oil (Mobil 1 0W40), for half the service length (15.000km), and retrofitting the cartridge-type oil breather filter. Hoping that would cure the intake clogging?

dvdcore

Having the problem still present, i took it a bit scientifically and managed to record the actual limp mode on two runs to aprox 240 km/h.

Here are the recordings in DIS diagnosis tool:

1st run:
This shows also the coolant engine temperature.
Watch from 0:53 (4th gear).
The limp mode is triggered at 1:12 showing:
Coolant: 98 C
maf actual : 1300
maf specified: 852
actual boost: 3.510 bar (2.510 without the 1 atmospheric)
specified boost : ~2.9 bar (1.9 without the 1 atmospheric)
rpm : 3999
charge-air temp : 90 C


2nd run:
Watch from 0:13 (2nd gear).
The limp mode is triggered at 0:39 showing:
actual boost: 3.510 bar (2.510 without the 1 atmospheric)
specified boost : ~2.9 bar (1.9 without the 1 atmospheric)
rpm : 4027
charge-air temp : 90 C

Final stats showing all the parameters at the moment of the limp moments:
Here the boost values are the real ones (-1 atm bar)


So here are my thoughts:

1. MAF (mass air flow) sensor readings are totally off. Specified value never goes over 852 mg, actual value goes even up to 1400 !!!
I had a MAF error on the DIS before these runs, so i used CRC maf cleaner, and the error is gone, but the readings are wrong. This maf was replaced 2 years ago, i think in vain, so i tried also with the other maf, exactly same readings.
What other sensors are used to calculate the Actual value?
Anyway the difference between the two values are also in the lower gears as well, so why the limp mode is only in 5th?
If i disconnect the MAF, the specified Maf value stays to a predefined constant ~500mg, exactly as you see after the limp mode is triggered.

2. The coolant and charge-air temperatures are quite high, so I also checked the Intercooler and its hoses, but they seem ok. I also replaced two years ago the temperature sensor in the intercooler pipe. Puricele says this sensor could cause the high difference in the above values for the MAF. After these runs, my mechanic has spotted that the EGR pipeline which introduces cold exhaust gases to the intake, had a leak, because it was not tighten properly at one of the ends. Perhaps this is one of the cause for the high temperatures.

3. I checked a few times all the parameters of the above videos, but i cannot find a particular pattern to understand why the ACTUAL boost is simply going nuts when hitting the 4000 rpm in 5th. It stays to ~3.2-3,3 in all gears but in 5th almost instantly is 3.5-3.6. However the specified boost remains always under 3 bar. The specified boost is calculated by the MAP sensor, which also was replaced some time ago.
Again the same question, what other sensors/parameters is the ECU using to calculate the Actual pressure boost beside the MAP?


4. The wastegate of the large turbo seems to function well, as the boost pressure is starting to go down after 4000rpm in every gear. But not quite at 4000 rpm as it would theoretically should in BMW specifications, rather visually in DIS can be seen after 4300 rpm. I suspect this can be a delay of the actual DIS reading from the ECU.
After checking the two vacuum valves that trigger the wastegates to open and close, my mechanic thinks that perhaps the vacuum pump, is not producing 100% vacuum as it should, so the wastegate is not fully open though after 4K.

Puricele7e

1. As far as I remember, my car didn't stay at a specified value of 852, but it rose along with the rpm, keeping a certain difference between specified and actual. (like 1,150 specified, 1,240 actual). I didn't have such huge differences between specified and actual, but I'll have to check that again, as soon as I'll take the car out for a speed run.

2. The EGR valve closes above a certain rpm level (I think 2700 or 3000? something like that), so I imagine, even if the EGR Pipeline hat a small leak, under full throttle, the car would only suck in air comming directly from the intercooler, with the other circuit closed.

3. What do you mean by the MAP sensor? Could you show it to me in the ETK/EPC?

4. There is a way to test the vacuum pump, I think by connecting a vacuum gauge somewhere while the engine is running, or somewhere by software (but I wasn't able to find it....), the garage that changed my engine mentioned my vacuum pump was not sealing properly on the inside and was not producing enough vacuum anyway. But I did't bother to ask how did they measure it. Should I ?

Greets
Vlad