Removing the swirl flaps in a diesel engine
05-09-2009, 09:48 PM
#141
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Originally Posted by guldbil' post='873999' date='May 10 2009, 08:12 AM
Yes we did it all as it should be done, 
The "little" mistake that caused the problem, where just the induction hose at the EGR that was not clipped fully on ... Now its running perfect ;o) The metalclip did not sit tight.. Now its just fine... Thanks but we found out an hour after writing this.
The "little" mistake that caused the problem, where just the induction hose at the EGR that was not clipped fully on ... Now its running perfect ;o) The metalclip did not sit tight.. Now its just fine... Thanks but we found out an hour after writing this.
05-12-2009, 12:30 PM
#142
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Originally Posted by Anzafin' post='869795' date='May 6 2009, 04:30 PM
Hi Adi and welcome to the forums!
I've talked a lot about the issue with several people (and still love to do that), and I don't try to turn anyone's head to remove the swirl flaps, if the person doesn't want to. They can break or they might last. So it is all up to you what you want to do
. Depending on who you are talking to (BMW dealers, car mechanics, car owners etc.), you will have several different answers and opinions. I can only tell mine 
.
I'm almost sure you have the updated swirl flaps since you have a DPF. I know couple of cases, where these updated swirl flaps have failed too. The other was member Hellraiser with his 535d. He managed to remove them before the massive destruction, but four axels were already twisted badly when the intake manifold was checked. The other guy was Finnish if I remember right.
I've talked with people, who have experienced the swirl flap failure, and all of them have told me, that it all happened very fast. Some of them have heard some strange noises from the engine at first, but the failure has followed in seconds.
We talked about the DPF lifetime in another thread too with some members. There I told that "my" BMW mechanic thought that the removal wouldn't affect the DPF lifetime very much. I still don't know the truth. At least I can tell my DPF hasn't increased the cycle between cleaning processes. It still goes trough the cleaning process as rarely as before the removal of flaps. Actually my dealer recommends to remove the swirl flaps (unofficially of course), if the car has already rolled over 100.000kms and if there's no warranty left anymore.
I decided to remove mine to achieve a peace of mind. And I totally has it now. I took my car to an annual vehicle inspection few weeks ago, and the car passed it with clean papers. No changes in emissions or anything.
Let's keep the talk alive!
- Anzafin -
I've talked a lot about the issue with several people (and still love to do that), and I don't try to turn anyone's head to remove the swirl flaps, if the person doesn't want to. They can break or they might last. So it is all up to you what you want to do
. Depending on who you are talking to (BMW dealers, car mechanics, car owners etc.), you will have several different answers and opinions. I can only tell mine .I'm almost sure you have the updated swirl flaps since you have a DPF. I know couple of cases, where these updated swirl flaps have failed too. The other was member Hellraiser with his 535d. He managed to remove them before the massive destruction, but four axels were already twisted badly when the intake manifold was checked. The other guy was Finnish if I remember right.
I've talked with people, who have experienced the swirl flap failure, and all of them have told me, that it all happened very fast. Some of them have heard some strange noises from the engine at first, but the failure has followed in seconds.
We talked about the DPF lifetime in another thread too with some members. There I told that "my" BMW mechanic thought that the removal wouldn't affect the DPF lifetime very much. I still don't know the truth. At least I can tell my DPF hasn't increased the cycle between cleaning processes. It still goes trough the cleaning process as rarely as before the removal of flaps. Actually my dealer recommends to remove the swirl flaps (unofficially of course), if the car has already rolled over 100.000kms and if there's no warranty left anymore.
I decided to remove mine to achieve a peace of mind. And I totally has it now. I took my car to an annual vehicle inspection few weeks ago, and the car passed it with clean papers. No changes in emissions or anything.
Let's keep the talk alive!
- Anzafin -
Thanks again for the DYI and for your reply.
I want to know if the reading of the km number left for the DPF has changed dramticaly or not.
For example, my car has almost 100.000 km, and the DPF life time is of 100.000 km left, since the entire lifetime should be 200.000 km.
Also, I`ve found on the romanian forum this information that suggests that the only effect obtained by removal of the swirl flaps are higher emissions at low revs. But does this mean affecting the DPF?
Swirl flap control DDE 5.0
The adjustable swirl flaps are located in the tangential channels of the intake system and are opened and
closed according to the operating status of the engine. The swirl flaps are closed under the following
conditions:
# at low engine speeds and low injection volumes (map-controlled)
The swirl flaps generally remain open when
# the coolant temperature < 15?C OR
# the intake air temperature < 15?C
Function
The pressure converter connects the vacuum unit with the vacuum supply by means of hoses. When
activated by the DDE control unit, the changeover valve switches vacuum to the vacuum unit. The vacuum
unit actuates the control rod and the swirl flaps close. The control rod is up against the rear stop when the
swirl flaps are open.
Troubleshooting
If a fault is detected in the control of the pressure converter, the following faults may be detected:
# 4130, Activation short circuit to B+
# 4141, Activation short circuit to B-
# 4152, Activation circuit break
# 4153, Excess temperature output stage
Effects of faults
If the swirl flaps stick in open position: Deterioration in exhaust gas characteristics in lower speed ranges
otherwise no effect.
If the swirl flaps stick in closed position: Power loss of approx. 10% at higher engine speeds.
05-12-2009, 12:43 PM
#143
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Originally Posted by amon' post='876473' date='May 12 2009, 11:30 PM
Hi Anzafin,
Thanks again for the DYI and for your reply.
I want to know if the reading of the km number left for the DPF has changed dramticaly or not.
For example, my car has almost 100.000 km, and the DPF life time is of 100.000 km left, since the entire lifetime should be 200.000 km.
Also, I`ve found on the romanian forum this information that suggests that the only effect obtained by removal of the swirl flaps are higher emissions at low revs. But does this mean affecting the DPF?
Swirl flap control DDE 5.0
The adjustable swirl flaps are located in the tangential channels of the intake system and are opened and
closed according to the operating status of the engine. The swirl flaps are closed under the following
conditions:
# at low engine speeds and low injection volumes (map-controlled)
The swirl flaps generally remain open when
# the coolant temperature < 15?C OR
# the intake air temperature < 15?C
Function
The pressure converter connects the vacuum unit with the vacuum supply by means of hoses. When
activated by the DDE control unit, the changeover valve switches vacuum to the vacuum unit. The vacuum
unit actuates the control rod and the swirl flaps close. The control rod is up against the rear stop when the
swirl flaps are open.
Troubleshooting
If a fault is detected in the control of the pressure converter, the following faults may be detected:
# 4130, Activation short circuit to B+
# 4141, Activation short circuit to B-
# 4152, Activation circuit break
# 4153, Excess temperature output stage
Effects of faults
If the swirl flaps stick in open position: Deterioration in exhaust gas characteristics in lower speed ranges
otherwise no effect.
If the swirl flaps stick in closed position: Power loss of approx. 10% at higher engine speeds.
Thanks again for the DYI and for your reply.
I want to know if the reading of the km number left for the DPF has changed dramticaly or not.
For example, my car has almost 100.000 km, and the DPF life time is of 100.000 km left, since the entire lifetime should be 200.000 km.
Also, I`ve found on the romanian forum this information that suggests that the only effect obtained by removal of the swirl flaps are higher emissions at low revs. But does this mean affecting the DPF?
Swirl flap control DDE 5.0
The adjustable swirl flaps are located in the tangential channels of the intake system and are opened and
closed according to the operating status of the engine. The swirl flaps are closed under the following
conditions:
# at low engine speeds and low injection volumes (map-controlled)
The swirl flaps generally remain open when
# the coolant temperature < 15?C OR
# the intake air temperature < 15?C
Function
The pressure converter connects the vacuum unit with the vacuum supply by means of hoses. When
activated by the DDE control unit, the changeover valve switches vacuum to the vacuum unit. The vacuum
unit actuates the control rod and the swirl flaps close. The control rod is up against the rear stop when the
swirl flaps are open.
Troubleshooting
If a fault is detected in the control of the pressure converter, the following faults may be detected:
# 4130, Activation short circuit to B+
# 4141, Activation short circuit to B-
# 4152, Activation circuit break
# 4153, Excess temperature output stage
Effects of faults
If the swirl flaps stick in open position: Deterioration in exhaust gas characteristics in lower speed ranges
otherwise no effect.
If the swirl flaps stick in closed position: Power loss of approx. 10% at higher engine speeds.
I bolded the parts I'm answering here.
1) The kms in the service menu haven't changed at all (DPF). But the kms are probably linked only with driven kms, not the DPF itself.
2) That's right, higher emissions on lower rpms (<2000rpms) only, but how much this does affect on the DPF, I don't know.
I haven't noticed any increment between the DPF self cleaning processes! It does the cleaning just as rarely as before! And I think this tells quite much to us that the removal of swirl flaps doesn't affect very much on DPF
.
07-01-2009, 06:04 AM
#145
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hi,
my 530d 2004 was de flapped in january and runs fine without them (mine had the upgraded flaps but they still came out as i didnt want to risk it).
i removed them myself after reading some of the horror stories from other members and didnt want this to happen to my vehicle, i had not known anyone that this had happend to, well now i do!!,
My friend has a 320d e46 2002 which also has the flap problem, his engine decided to ingest the flaps last week at 90,000 mls and wrecked the pistons, turbo and valves!!! bmw would not do a goodwill repair as the service book had 1 non bmw stamp!!! they quoted him ?3000 gbp to repair it, in the end he managed to find a used turbo and a local garage sorted it for ?1200 gbp.
so a lesson for everyone reading this post if you are out of your warranty!!, GET THEM SWIRL FLAPS OUT OF YOUR ENGINE!!! before it is too late!!, follow the instructions on this post and you will be fine, ps no need to use the expensive blanking plugs plain self tapping screws from your local hardwear store is all you need max ?1 cost!! to save you a ?1200 minimum bill = result!!
bob
my 530d 2004 was de flapped in january and runs fine without them (mine had the upgraded flaps but they still came out as i didnt want to risk it).
i removed them myself after reading some of the horror stories from other members and didnt want this to happen to my vehicle, i had not known anyone that this had happend to, well now i do!!,
My friend has a 320d e46 2002 which also has the flap problem, his engine decided to ingest the flaps last week at 90,000 mls and wrecked the pistons, turbo and valves!!! bmw would not do a goodwill repair as the service book had 1 non bmw stamp!!! they quoted him ?3000 gbp to repair it, in the end he managed to find a used turbo and a local garage sorted it for ?1200 gbp.
so a lesson for everyone reading this post if you are out of your warranty!!, GET THEM SWIRL FLAPS OUT OF YOUR ENGINE!!! before it is too late!!, follow the instructions on this post and you will be fine, ps no need to use the expensive blanking plugs plain self tapping screws from your local hardwear store is all you need max ?1 cost!! to save you a ?1200 minimum bill = result!!
bob
07-01-2009, 12:56 PM
#146
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Originally Posted by bobsimes' post='929432' date='Jul 1 2009, 03:04 PM
hi,
my 530d 2004 was de flapped in january and runs fine without them (mine had the upgraded flaps but they still came out as i didnt want to risk it).
i removed them myself after reading some of the horror stories from other members and didnt want this to happen to my vehicle, i had not known anyone that this had happend to, well now i do!!,
My friend has a 320d e46 2002 which also has the flap problem, his engine decided to ingest the flaps last week at 90,000 mls and wrecked the pistons, turbo and valves!!! bmw would not do a goodwill repair as the service book had 1 non bmw stamp!!! they quoted him ?3000 gbp to repair it, in the end he managed to find a used turbo and a local garage sorted it for ?1200 gbp.
so a lesson for everyone reading this post if you are out of your warranty!!, GET THEM SWIRL FLAPS OUT OF YOUR ENGINE!!! before it is too late!!, follow the instructions on this post and you will be fine, ps no need to use the expensive blanking plugs plain self tapping screws from your local hardwear store is all you need max ?1 cost!! to save you a ?1200 minimum bill = result!!
bob
my 530d 2004 was de flapped in january and runs fine without them (mine had the upgraded flaps but they still came out as i didnt want to risk it).
i removed them myself after reading some of the horror stories from other members and didnt want this to happen to my vehicle, i had not known anyone that this had happend to, well now i do!!,
My friend has a 320d e46 2002 which also has the flap problem, his engine decided to ingest the flaps last week at 90,000 mls and wrecked the pistons, turbo and valves!!! bmw would not do a goodwill repair as the service book had 1 non bmw stamp!!! they quoted him ?3000 gbp to repair it, in the end he managed to find a used turbo and a local garage sorted it for ?1200 gbp.
so a lesson for everyone reading this post if you are out of your warranty!!, GET THEM SWIRL FLAPS OUT OF YOUR ENGINE!!! before it is too late!!, follow the instructions on this post and you will be fine, ps no need to use the expensive blanking plugs plain self tapping screws from your local hardwear store is all you need max ?1 cost!! to save you a ?1200 minimum bill = result!!
bob
I agree
07-02-2009, 12:07 PM
#147
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Originally Posted by bobsimes' post='929432' date='Jul 1 2009, 05:04 PM
hi,
my 530d 2004 was de flapped in january and runs fine without them (mine had the upgraded flaps but they still came out as i didnt want to risk it).
i removed them myself after reading some of the horror stories from other members and didnt want this to happen to my vehicle, i had not known anyone that this had happend to, well now i do!!,
My friend has a 320d e46 2002 which also has the flap problem, his engine decided to ingest the flaps last week at 90,000 mls and wrecked the pistons, turbo and valves!!! bmw would not do a goodwill repair as the service book had 1 non bmw stamp!!! they quoted him ?3000 gbp to repair it, in the end he managed to find a used turbo and a local garage sorted it for ?1200 gbp.
so a lesson for everyone reading this post if you are out of your warranty!!, GET THEM SWIRL FLAPS OUT OF YOUR ENGINE!!! before it is too late!!, follow the instructions on this post and you will be fine, ps no need to use the expensive blanking plugs plain self tapping screws from your local hardwear store is all you need max ?1 cost!! to save you a ?1200 minimum bill = result!!
bob
my 530d 2004 was de flapped in january and runs fine without them (mine had the upgraded flaps but they still came out as i didnt want to risk it).
i removed them myself after reading some of the horror stories from other members and didnt want this to happen to my vehicle, i had not known anyone that this had happend to, well now i do!!,
My friend has a 320d e46 2002 which also has the flap problem, his engine decided to ingest the flaps last week at 90,000 mls and wrecked the pistons, turbo and valves!!! bmw would not do a goodwill repair as the service book had 1 non bmw stamp!!! they quoted him ?3000 gbp to repair it, in the end he managed to find a used turbo and a local garage sorted it for ?1200 gbp.
so a lesson for everyone reading this post if you are out of your warranty!!, GET THEM SWIRL FLAPS OUT OF YOUR ENGINE!!! before it is too late!!, follow the instructions on this post and you will be fine, ps no need to use the expensive blanking plugs plain self tapping screws from your local hardwear store is all you need max ?1 cost!! to save you a ?1200 minimum bill = result!!
bob
I have to show this post to him and convince him about the problem.
07-29-2009, 12:28 PM
#148
I've just removed my flaps following this guide (which I have to say is excellent).
My October 2004 535d had the 4mm spindles. The flaps were OK although pretty dirty (at 60k miles).
I disconnected the battery after removing the sat nav DVD and leaving the car for about 15mins to settle down after unlocking. Reconnection at the end didn't cause any problems at all, only the clock needed resetting. The windows, sunroof, saved settings, etc. were untouched. I did, however fold the seats down and climb through to do the battery. My estate has an electric tailgate and once the battery was off I wouldn't be able to close it, in fact even a saloon might be a problem if the boot gets accidentally closed (because it starts raining for example).
I didn't need a deep 11m socket to get the manifold off, a standard socket just did it, but they were tight.
I did have to remove the wiring for the injectors, but that was simple although it required a tiny torx socket. There are three screws to removed.
I looked up the torque settings for the critical bits and the manifold bolts need 15Nm and the tension strut 27Nm.
I found a 5mm 13mm long screw a bit loose in the hole, if I did it again I'd use a 6mm self-tapping 13mm long screw.
There was a fair bit of oil leakage below the manifold but I'm pretty sure it leaked out of the seals around the swirl flap spindles so plugging that should fix the problem.
Once back together I cannot feel any difference to the performance, if anything it's better and the MPG has improved. That may be due to the fixing of the leaky spindles though (air leaks in manifolds are bad).
My October 2004 535d had the 4mm spindles. The flaps were OK although pretty dirty (at 60k miles).
I disconnected the battery after removing the sat nav DVD and leaving the car for about 15mins to settle down after unlocking. Reconnection at the end didn't cause any problems at all, only the clock needed resetting. The windows, sunroof, saved settings, etc. were untouched. I did, however fold the seats down and climb through to do the battery. My estate has an electric tailgate and once the battery was off I wouldn't be able to close it, in fact even a saloon might be a problem if the boot gets accidentally closed (because it starts raining for example).
I didn't need a deep 11m socket to get the manifold off, a standard socket just did it, but they were tight.
I did have to remove the wiring for the injectors, but that was simple although it required a tiny torx socket. There are three screws to removed.
I looked up the torque settings for the critical bits and the manifold bolts need 15Nm and the tension strut 27Nm.
I found a 5mm 13mm long screw a bit loose in the hole, if I did it again I'd use a 6mm self-tapping 13mm long screw.
There was a fair bit of oil leakage below the manifold but I'm pretty sure it leaked out of the seals around the swirl flap spindles so plugging that should fix the problem.
Once back together I cannot feel any difference to the performance, if anything it's better and the MPG has improved. That may be due to the fixing of the leaky spindles though (air leaks in manifolds are bad).
07-31-2009, 04:22 PM
#150
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My Ride: Estoril Blue 440i GC
Model Year: 2017
I threw away my flaps a few months ago - they were a little dirty, but nothing too serious - the car had done around 46000 miles. Soon after, I noticed that my fuel consumption had improved. I put this down to the weather getting warmer. Well, here in the UK we've had warmer, wetter and cooler weather since then, and I am still getting around 2mpg better all round. This may be a coincidence, but I'm sure I'm not driving it any differently - maybe a little faster as the roads are drier - and my normal running has't changed.
So. This is a big bonus along with the peace of mind.
Mike
So. This is a big bonus along with the peace of mind.
Mike