Removing the swirl flaps in a diesel engine
02-13-2009, 03:24 AM
#41
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After talking to Anzafin, and we reached the conclusion that even modified Swirl Flaps.
My car had them and as i explained to him, it had 4 broken SF! Which i believe that is amazing...in a negative way!
As for power loss or gained, i know for granted that you might get a bit more power in torque.
But, in a 535d or even a 530d that is not very noticeable.
In the 2.0d engines you can feel a little bit more!
My advice?
Remove them, it is not an expensive thing to do and for the peace of mind you get...well, worth every penny!
My car had them and as i explained to him, it had 4 broken SF! Which i believe that is amazing...in a negative way!
As for power loss or gained, i know for granted that you might get a bit more power in torque.
But, in a 535d or even a 530d that is not very noticeable.
In the 2.0d engines you can feel a little bit more!
My advice?
Remove them, it is not an expensive thing to do and for the peace of mind you get...well, worth every penny!
02-13-2009, 07:06 AM
#42
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i dont think that the problems were soley down to the thickness of the rod (4 or 4.5mm) it was also the way the flaps were attached to the bar.
my 2004 530d had the 4mm bars, but the 2005 535d had the 4.5mm bar, but BOTH were attached by 2 (what looked like ) pop rivets?
thats what worked loose on one, and these could easly get sucked into the inlet.
so i do think this can/could happen to moddified intakes also.
not wanting to panack anybody, but this is more widespread than people might think, the vast majority of E60 diesel owners are NOT on any forums, and you never get to hear about the failures.
better to be safe than sorry.
my 2004 530d had the 4mm bars, but the 2005 535d had the 4.5mm bar, but BOTH were attached by 2 (what looked like ) pop rivets?
thats what worked loose on one, and these could easly get sucked into the inlet.
so i do think this can/could happen to moddified intakes also.
not wanting to panack anybody, but this is more widespread than people might think, the vast majority of E60 diesel owners are NOT on any forums, and you never get to hear about the failures.
better to be safe than sorry.
02-13-2009, 08:30 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by Dr Dave' post='792104' date='Feb 13 2009, 06:06 PM
i dont think that the problems were soley down to the thickness of the rod (4 or 4.5mm) it was also the way the flaps were attached to the bar.
my 2004 530d had the 4mm bars, but the 2005 535d had the 4.5mm bar, but BOTH were attached by 2 (what looked like ) pop rivets?
thats what worked loose on one, and these could easly get sucked into the inlet.
so i do think this can/could happen to moddified intakes also.
not wanting to panack anybody, but this is more widespread than people might think, the vast majority of E60 diesel owners are NOT on any forums, and you never get to hear about the failures.
better to be safe than sorry.
my 2004 530d had the 4mm bars, but the 2005 535d had the 4.5mm bar, but BOTH were attached by 2 (what looked like ) pop rivets?
thats what worked loose on one, and these could easly get sucked into the inlet.
so i do think this can/could happen to moddified intakes also.
not wanting to panack anybody, but this is more widespread than people might think, the vast majority of E60 diesel owners are NOT on any forums, and you never get to hear about the failures.
better to be safe than sorry.
Hellraiser just told about his case!
Uups sorry. Apparently I misread your phrase
.
02-14-2009, 06:27 AM
#44
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Like I told in the DIY, I left the rod (which moves the flaps) installed.
I just tested with mirror that the rpm's must go up to 2000 before the rod moves.
And in regular road speeds the rpm's are so low as 1400-1500...
Now when the swirl flaps are removed, the result is the same as they were sticked in open position, right.
So I've started wondering, how does it affect the particle filter especially, since the WDS says the following:
Swirl flap control DDE 4.0:
The controllable swirl flaps are located in the intake pipe and are closed or opened depending on the operating status. The flaps are closed at engine speeds below approx. 2000 rpm and injection volume below 30 mm^3.
Function:
The pressure converter connects the vacuum unit with the vacuum supply by means of hoses. When activated by the DDE control unit, the changeover valve switches vacuum to the vacuum unit thus operating the control rod and closing the swirl flaps. The control rod is up against the rear stop when the swirl flaps are open.
Troubleshooting:
Fault code 1A22 "Swirl flaps" is stored if a defect occurs in the activation of the pressure converter.
Effects of faults:
Swirl flaps stick in open position: Deterioration in exhaust gas characteristics in lower speed ranges otherwise no effect.
Swirl flaps stick in closed position: Power loss of approx. 10 % at higher engine speeds.
I'm still happy I removed them though...
I just tested with mirror that the rpm's must go up to 2000 before the rod moves.
And in regular road speeds the rpm's are so low as 1400-1500...
Now when the swirl flaps are removed, the result is the same as they were sticked in open position, right.
So I've started wondering, how does it affect the particle filter especially, since the WDS says the following:
Swirl flap control DDE 4.0:
The controllable swirl flaps are located in the intake pipe and are closed or opened depending on the operating status. The flaps are closed at engine speeds below approx. 2000 rpm and injection volume below 30 mm^3.
Function:
The pressure converter connects the vacuum unit with the vacuum supply by means of hoses. When activated by the DDE control unit, the changeover valve switches vacuum to the vacuum unit thus operating the control rod and closing the swirl flaps. The control rod is up against the rear stop when the swirl flaps are open.
Troubleshooting:
Fault code 1A22 "Swirl flaps" is stored if a defect occurs in the activation of the pressure converter.
Effects of faults:
Swirl flaps stick in open position: Deterioration in exhaust gas characteristics in lower speed ranges otherwise no effect.
Swirl flaps stick in closed position: Power loss of approx. 10 % at higher engine speeds.
I'm still happy I removed them though...
02-14-2009, 07:16 AM
#45
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so do i read into that, the fact that we loose 10% of power? by doing this??
or do we experiance a "detereation" of exhaust gasses?
which way round is it after having them removed?
like you mate, im not bothered (read not noticed anything) the peice of mind thinking about major engine failure did it for me.
or do we experiance a "detereation" of exhaust gasses?
which way round is it after having them removed?
like you mate, im not bothered (read not noticed anything) the peice of mind thinking about major engine failure did it for me.
02-14-2009, 07:19 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by Dr Dave' post='792742' date='Feb 14 2009, 06:16 PM
so do i read into that, the fact that we loose 10% of power? by doing this??
or do we experiance a "detereation" of exhaust gasses?
which way round is it after having them removed?
like you mate, im not bothered (read not noticed anything) the peice of mind thinking about major engine failure did it for me.
or do we experiance a "detereation" of exhaust gasses?
which way round is it after having them removed?
like you mate, im not bothered (read not noticed anything) the peice of mind thinking about major engine failure did it for me.
But we have the same effect as they were stuck open: Deterioration in exhaust gas characteristics in lower speed ranges otherwise no effect.
edit: "open position" = removed
edit2: And I tried to question, will removing them affect the particle filter, since the WDS tells that exhausts will deteriorate on lower (<2000) rpms, if the flaps remain open (=removed)...
But like I said, I'm still happier this way !
02-14-2009, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Dave' post='792756' date='Feb 14 2009, 06:40 PM
thats great thanks mate.
do you think it will make any difference when it comes to our MOT (TUV) test?
do you think it will make any difference when it comes to our MOT (TUV) test?
And even if they did the test on low rpms, I don't believe there would be any differencies, since they measure smoking rates (I'm not sure how to translate this).
02-16-2009, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Anzafin' post='792761' date='Feb 14 2009, 11:49 AM
No difference in our (Finnish) tests at least. They do measuring at high revs.
And even if they did the test on low rpms, I don't believe there would be any differencies, since they measure smoking rates (I'm not sure how to translate this).
And even if they did the test on low rpms, I don't believe there would be any differencies, since they measure smoking rates (I'm not sure how to translate this).
In diesel cars what is measured is the amount of smoke!
And even without the SF, our cars (with FAPS) don?t have any visible smoke!
