Removing the swirl flaps in a diesel engine
02-16-2009, 07:59 AM
#51
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its not preventing the opperation of the swirl flaps...its stopping anything from being "sucked" into the inlet, so the more you leave there...the more chance something has of being sucked in...
if everything is removed then nothing can break away and cause damage.
flaps/rods/screws or pop rivets etc.)...get rid of it all.
nice clean inlet.
if everything is removed then nothing can break away and cause damage.
flaps/rods/screws or pop rivets etc.)...get rid of it all.
nice clean inlet.
02-16-2009, 08:31 AM
#52
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I tried to unscrew the tiny torx screws to separate the flap from its axel, but it wasn't possible. Screws were locked somehow.
And that's right what David said, no need to leave anything in.
And that's right what David said, no need to leave anything in.
02-17-2009, 01:06 AM
#53
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Hi
I've currently got the manifold sitting in my garage from my 2005 530D deciding what to do with the flaps.
I've cleaned all the deposits from the flaps and inspected them and they seem fine, no free play.
However the car has covered about 150K Km and is out of warranty so It's I can't afford to take any risks.
I've thought about leaving the flaps in place but removing the vacum supply which will mean they are always open and will experience minimum forces compared to when they are closed.
Remove the flaps from the shafts by unsrewing the tiny star bolts, although I have not tried this as yet and the previous mail indicates this may not be possible.
Remove the flaps and shafts as this thread shows.
Another option would be to cut through the flap housing leaving only that what is necessary to seal the hole in the manifold. (i've seen this done on 330D's)
The swirl system is primarily for emissions reduction, hence the flaps will not be active at high engine speeds and high loads which are outside the european emissions drive cycle.
They may be used for cold starting (below 0degC) it depends on the OEM calibration
There will be an increase in Particulates, due to the reduction in air / fuel mixing with reduced swirl. If the flaps had no effect on combustion they would not be there as they cost BMW money.
I'll let you now what I decide to do.
Jason
(OEM combustion engineer)
I've currently got the manifold sitting in my garage from my 2005 530D deciding what to do with the flaps.
I've cleaned all the deposits from the flaps and inspected them and they seem fine, no free play.
However the car has covered about 150K Km and is out of warranty so It's I can't afford to take any risks.
I've thought about leaving the flaps in place but removing the vacum supply which will mean they are always open and will experience minimum forces compared to when they are closed.
Remove the flaps from the shafts by unsrewing the tiny star bolts, although I have not tried this as yet and the previous mail indicates this may not be possible.
Remove the flaps and shafts as this thread shows.
Another option would be to cut through the flap housing leaving only that what is necessary to seal the hole in the manifold. (i've seen this done on 330D's)
The swirl system is primarily for emissions reduction, hence the flaps will not be active at high engine speeds and high loads which are outside the european emissions drive cycle.
They may be used for cold starting (below 0degC) it depends on the OEM calibration
There will be an increase in Particulates, due to the reduction in air / fuel mixing with reduced swirl. If the flaps had no effect on combustion they would not be there as they cost BMW money.
I'll let you now what I decide to do.
Jason
(OEM combustion engineer)
02-17-2009, 01:55 AM
#54
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Originally Posted by jasonprice07' post='794703' date='Feb 17 2009, 12:06 PM
Hi
I've currently got the manifold sitting in my garage from my 2005 530D deciding what to do with the flaps.
I've cleaned all the deposits from the flaps and inspected them and they seem fine, no free play.
However the car has covered about 150K Km and is out of warranty so It's I can't afford to take any risks.
I've thought about leaving the flaps in place but removing the vacum supply which will mean they are always open and will experience minimum forces compared to when they are closed.
Remove the flaps from the shafts by unsrewing the tiny star bolts, although I have not tried this as yet and the previous mail indicates this may not be possible.
Remove the flaps and shafts as this thread shows.
Another option would be to cut through the flap housing leaving only that what is necessary to seal the hole in the manifold. (i've seen this done on 330D's)
The swirl system is primarily for emissions reduction, hence the flaps will not be active at high engine speeds and high loads which are outside the european emissions drive cycle.
They may be used for cold starting (below 0degC) it depends on the OEM calibration
There will be an increase in Particulates, due to the reduction in air / fuel mixing with reduced swirl. If the flaps had no effect on combustion they would not be there as they cost BMW money.
I'll let you now what I decide to do.
Jason
(OEM combustion engineer)
I've currently got the manifold sitting in my garage from my 2005 530D deciding what to do with the flaps.
I've cleaned all the deposits from the flaps and inspected them and they seem fine, no free play.
However the car has covered about 150K Km and is out of warranty so It's I can't afford to take any risks.
I've thought about leaving the flaps in place but removing the vacum supply which will mean they are always open and will experience minimum forces compared to when they are closed.
Remove the flaps from the shafts by unsrewing the tiny star bolts, although I have not tried this as yet and the previous mail indicates this may not be possible.
Remove the flaps and shafts as this thread shows.
Another option would be to cut through the flap housing leaving only that what is necessary to seal the hole in the manifold. (i've seen this done on 330D's)
The swirl system is primarily for emissions reduction, hence the flaps will not be active at high engine speeds and high loads which are outside the european emissions drive cycle.
They may be used for cold starting (below 0degC) it depends on the OEM calibration
There will be an increase in Particulates, due to the reduction in air / fuel mixing with reduced swirl. If the flaps had no effect on combustion they would not be there as they cost BMW money.
I'll let you now what I decide to do.
Jason
(OEM combustion engineer)
02-17-2009, 02:06 AM
#55
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OMG...if you already have gone to the trouble of removing the inlet, then its a no-brainer..you must get rid of the bits..
the forces (suction) created by the inlet are huge, and leaving the flaps or bars there would still present very high risk of being pulled into the engine.
as there is absoluty no difference in performance or economy (for 99.9%
) you should do it.
as your engine is highish milage it would be a pre requisite for me.
what would you gain from leaving it in, albeit un-functional?
it would almost be status quo ?
(. If the flaps had no effect on combustion they would not be there as they cost BMW money.)
BMW put plenty of things in our car that are unnessecery..like run flats i think it was an over engineered emissions statement?, but what do i know?
your car..your call.
good luck mate.
the forces (suction) created by the inlet are huge, and leaving the flaps or bars there would still present very high risk of being pulled into the engine.
as there is absoluty no difference in performance or economy (for 99.9%
) you should do it.as your engine is highish milage it would be a pre requisite for me.
what would you gain from leaving it in, albeit un-functional?
it would almost be status quo ?
(. If the flaps had no effect on combustion they would not be there as they cost BMW money.)
BMW put plenty of things in our car that are unnessecery..like run flats
i think it was an over engineered emissions statement?, but what do i know? your car..your call.
good luck mate.
02-17-2009, 02:11 AM
#56
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Altough jasonprice07 throws in an important fact(?) that particle amounts will increase.
I displayed this concern earlier, as I'm bit worried about the particle filter. How much will this operation shorten its life?
I am now observing the service menu. Trying to notice if it indicates this on the particle filter service (change) need.
I displayed this concern earlier, as I'm bit worried about the particle filter. How much will this operation shorten its life?
I am now observing the service menu. Trying to notice if it indicates this on the particle filter service (change) need.
02-17-2009, 03:31 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by Dr Dave' post='794717' date='Feb 17 2009, 02:02 PM
so on NONE particle filter cars will they smoke a tad more occasionally?
There would be just more invisible particles in exhaust gases, not visible soot. I guess
.
02-17-2009, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Dave' post='794727' date='Feb 17 2009, 02:51 PM
invisible particles i can live with...more soot and ill look like a steam train. 
.