Seriously, how dumb are they in AZ?
05-15-2010, 08:56 PM
#31
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So do you have a problem with illegal immigrants, or just they way they are pursued...? I mean if you like your taxes and other resources? to continue to be used for one problem then by all means feel offended, but if you would like to stop this and focus on ...i don?t know fixing "our" country, and protecting it from people who would try and blow you up in time square... then let the law enforcement do their jobs and lets stop taking up on the part of criminals. 
Um, not sure if you noticed, but Mexicans haven't blown anything up (unless you count your bowels after Taco bell). Let's not get on this high horse about terrorism, been there done that. I served in Somalia and Iraq (before it was popular) and I was actually IN 2 WTC on 9/11 - so they HAVE tried to kill me. Now if you can tell me how keeping Mexicans out will help defend our country I'm all for it, but if it's that same pathetic excuse that terrorists can use Mexico to sneak into this country, I'd have to call you on that bullshit. It is waaaaaaay easier to cross into the US from Canada - way fewer ICE agents for one, then there's the fact that, unlike Mexico, there already is a huge Muslim population in Canada so there would be a support network.
05-16-2010, 06:55 AM
#32
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The ?Leftwing Loons? argue it is OK to violate a law ?if you need to?. So one can drive drunk 120 mph down a residential street because he needed to because he was stressed out at work.
One can rape someone because he needed to because someone made him angry.
One can rob a bank and shoot someone because he needed to because he was short of cash.
One can illegally enter our country because he needed to because he needed a job.
Follow the laws or work to change them. The end does not justify the means.
One can rape someone because he needed to because someone made him angry.
One can rob a bank and shoot someone because he needed to because he was short of cash.
One can illegally enter our country because he needed to because he needed a job.
Follow the laws or work to change them. The end does not justify the means.
05-16-2010, 07:11 AM
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The funny part is I know exactly what you mean. Hahaha!!!
05-16-2010, 07:19 AM
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The ?Leftwing Loons? argue it is OK to violate a law ?if you need to?. So one can drive drunk 120 mph down a residential street because he needed to because he was stressed out at work.
One can rape someone because he needed to because someone made him angry.
One can rob a bank and shoot someone because he needed to because he was short of cash.
One can illegally enter our country because he needed to because he needed a job.
Follow the laws or work to change them. The end does not justify the means.
One can rape someone because he needed to because someone made him angry.
One can rob a bank and shoot someone because he needed to because he was short of cash.
One can illegally enter our country because he needed to because he needed a job.
Follow the laws or work to change them. The end does not justify the means.
And that is the fundamental problem with the Arizona law. It is not about stopping people violating the law because they "need to". What is driving the opposition is the very reasonable concern that it will indeed result in racial profiling. Citing "reasonable suspicion", as someone did, as the primary check and balance is all very well, but I have little doubt that this particular threshold lowers based on the apparent ethnic origin of the individual in question. Those opposing the law are not proponents of illegal immigration. They are, however, legitimately concerned about profiling.
On this basis, are the charges in your post really the words or wishes of us "Leftwing (sic) Loons", or are they better described as made-up Conservative rants?
05-16-2010, 11:55 AM
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There isn't a single post in this thread where anyone has made these or similar suggestions. Most of my fellow liberals are essentially saying the same thing - follow the law - only without the hyperbole in your post, and with a very real recognition that in this particular case there are valid and reasonable concerns about its constitutionality and even more reasonable concerns about probable racial profiling.
And that is the fundamental problem with the Arizona law. It is not about stopping people violating the law because they "need to". What is driving the opposition is the very reasonable concern that it will indeed result in racial profiling. Citing "reasonable suspicion", as someone did, as the primary check and balance is all very well, but I have little doubt that this particular threshold lowers based on the apparent ethnic origin of the individual in question. Those opposing the law are not proponents of illegal immigration. They are, however, legitimately concerned about profiling.
On this basis, are the charges in your post really the words or wishes of us "Leftwing (sic) Loons", or are they better described as made-up Conservative rants?
And that is the fundamental problem with the Arizona law. It is not about stopping people violating the law because they "need to". What is driving the opposition is the very reasonable concern that it will indeed result in racial profiling. Citing "reasonable suspicion", as someone did, as the primary check and balance is all very well, but I have little doubt that this particular threshold lowers based on the apparent ethnic origin of the individual in question. Those opposing the law are not proponents of illegal immigration. They are, however, legitimately concerned about profiling.
On this basis, are the charges in your post really the words or wishes of us "Leftwing (sic) Loons", or are they better described as made-up Conservative rants?
Also, I agree with PJ that Mexicans are entering the US to find work -- not to blow up our cities.
05-16-2010, 02:18 PM
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All the fast talking in the world will not obfuscate the simple premise: Follow the law. If you do not like it then work to change it.
Making up excuses as to why one need not follow the law is unacceptable.
Making up excuses as to why one need not follow the law is unacceptable.
05-16-2010, 02:27 PM
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At what point did anyone advocate ignoring or disobeying the law? This thread was about a racist law, and yes, singling out a group or culture is racist and unconstitutional. If YOU traveled to Arizona today, would you feel compelled to take proof of citizenship - you have to remember the precedence of "reasonable suspicion" you cited is based solely on the discretion of the police officer, so you may need your papers in order. If you don;t feel the need, then you have just acknowledged it a racist law.
I am an American, I am a veteran, but I am also Latino - which means I WOULD feel the need to take paperwork (birth certificate, SSN, etc) JUST IN CASE.
05-16-2010, 02:29 PM
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The Arizona law follows very closely the federal law. The only thing Arizona is trying to do is enforce the laws the Federal government refuses to. If the Arizona law is not constitutional then the federal law isn't either.
Everyday one way or the other we are all profiled, everything from advertsing to being called up for jury duty. Some ways are more low key then others. People that cross the southern border may be picked out more easily and stopped for law violations because they don't speak English or not very well at least, and or they don't understand the laws of the cities and states they have entered or reside in. Once they are stopped, whats the first thing a law officer is looking for? That's right, a legal form of identification. Either a green card, driver's license, passport or whatever. Everyone has a form of i.d. in one form or another, that's just the way it it. From that information we are profiled.
The people that live along the U.S. southern border now live in fear. They arm themselves to protect they're lives and property. They cannot depend on the local, state and federal governments to protect them because law enforcement numbers are too few to cover such a large area. Check out this video that was produced just last year:
Just because people cross the southern border of the United States to find work does not make it okay. If people want to immigrate to the US, it must be done legally! Not all find enough work to support themselves and the families they bring along. That's where our tax dollars go to, to help support them. If they come here legally thats one thing, if they don't they should not get one red cent of help from the government! But they do and its costing us millions upon millions of dollars to fund! Arizona is just trying to make a statement with this law to the whole country and the federal government, illegal imigration into this country must be slowed to a trickle or stopped. Not only is it against the law, we can no longer afford it.
I could go on and on with this but I'm ready to go and get a beer. Catch y'all laterz.
Everyday one way or the other we are all profiled, everything from advertsing to being called up for jury duty. Some ways are more low key then others. People that cross the southern border may be picked out more easily and stopped for law violations because they don't speak English or not very well at least, and or they don't understand the laws of the cities and states they have entered or reside in. Once they are stopped, whats the first thing a law officer is looking for? That's right, a legal form of identification. Either a green card, driver's license, passport or whatever. Everyone has a form of i.d. in one form or another, that's just the way it it. From that information we are profiled.
The people that live along the U.S. southern border now live in fear. They arm themselves to protect they're lives and property. They cannot depend on the local, state and federal governments to protect them because law enforcement numbers are too few to cover such a large area. Check out this video that was produced just last year:
Just because people cross the southern border of the United States to find work does not make it okay. If people want to immigrate to the US, it must be done legally! Not all find enough work to support themselves and the families they bring along. That's where our tax dollars go to, to help support them. If they come here legally thats one thing, if they don't they should not get one red cent of help from the government! But they do and its costing us millions upon millions of dollars to fund! Arizona is just trying to make a statement with this law to the whole country and the federal government, illegal imigration into this country must be slowed to a trickle or stopped. Not only is it against the law, we can no longer afford it.
I could go on and on with this but I'm ready to go and get a beer. Catch y'all laterz.
05-16-2010, 03:17 PM
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If it's merely your tax dollars that you're worried about wouldn't it be much better to go after the other immigrants brought to America as "refugees" - meaning they get a more than generous monthly stipend from the government for life. This has happened since the 50's, even today, the Iraqi population in AZ, NM, TX has soared, brought here on your dime and given more than you would believe monthly to be here. Fact is most Mexicans DO come here for work, I don't agree with them not coming here legally, but let's get the facts straight.
05-16-2010, 03:53 PM
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From the L. A. Times
1. 40% of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes.
This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7... The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8 Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L. A. are Spanish speaking.
10. In L.. A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.. (There are 10.2 million people in L. A.. County .)
(All 10 of the above facts were published in the Los Angeles Times)
Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare. Over 70% of the United States ' annual population growth(and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York ) results from immigration. 29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.
1. 40% of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes.
This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7... The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8 Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L. A. are Spanish speaking.
10. In L.. A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.. (There are 10.2 million people in L. A.. County .)
(All 10 of the above facts were published in the Los Angeles Times)
Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare. Over 70% of the United States ' annual population growth(and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York ) results from immigration. 29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.