Seriously, how dumb are they in AZ?
05-12-2010, 06:14 PM
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well to be fair, people act like illegal immigration is some given right that mexicans have because way back it was apart of mexico.
Growing up in Cali, i wouldnt say that all ethnic studies tend to stress the marginalization but its pretty bad.
Having a mexican influence in cali and other border states is perfectly fine, i enjoy parts of it but its out of control, so AZ is reacting with heavy handed tactics, which will eventually bite them in the ass and they will have to compromise to some degree.
Thought, dont try to fool yourself, parts of the US economy suffers and benefits from illegal immigration, but the gang violence and social welfare that is stressed from it cannot continue
Growing up in Cali, i wouldnt say that all ethnic studies tend to stress the marginalization but its pretty bad.
Having a mexican influence in cali and other border states is perfectly fine, i enjoy parts of it but its out of control, so AZ is reacting with heavy handed tactics, which will eventually bite them in the ass and they will have to compromise to some degree.
Thought, dont try to fool yourself, parts of the US economy suffers and benefits from illegal immigration, but the gang violence and social welfare that is stressed from it cannot continue
Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with what you're saying. The gang violence, cross-border or home grown, is ridiculous and stupid. But that isn't a reason to label an entire culture (not CULTURE, not race, Mexican is not a race) as criminals and malcontents. What pisses me off most is that I can be arrested in Arizona for not having proof of citizenship on me at all times, I am Latino.
A lot of people have a problem with Mexicans. I for one do not. Being Puerto Rican, people always bring up to me the issues "we" have with them. This is 100% racism!
I think that being here illegally is, well, illegal and should be dealt with as such. Generalizing, targeting and profiling is racism as well. Not every Mexican is an immigrant and not every immigrant is a Mexican. With all the brains we have out there you are telling me that this is the only thing they came up with? Sounds like people need a history lesson and a new job.
I don't like the fact that people complain about immigrants but would never do the jobs that the immigrants would in a heartbeat. Ok, I digress...
Using my educated vocabulary, Racizm is stoopid.
I think that being here illegally is, well, illegal and should be dealt with as such. Generalizing, targeting and profiling is racism as well. Not every Mexican is an immigrant and not every immigrant is a Mexican. With all the brains we have out there you are telling me that this is the only thing they came up with? Sounds like people need a history lesson and a new job.
I don't like the fact that people complain about immigrants but would never do the jobs that the immigrants would in a heartbeat. Ok, I digress...
Using my educated vocabulary, Racizm is stoopid.
05-12-2010, 06:18 PM
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One of the best things about the USA is judicial review of laws. The Jim Crow laws were also the law of the land. They were an abomination -- the product of pure racism. I suppose that some of the "we are a nation of laws" types would have said back then that those laws should have been complied with. But thanks to judicial review and civil disobiediance, those laws are now on the ash heap of history. Which is exactly where I expect this Arizona abomination to end up. Legislatures, following the passions, of the voters sometimes get it wrong.
05-12-2010, 06:22 PM
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Basically, the Mexicans are merely following a long history in America of targeting the immigrant population that happens to be coming over the most at the time, from Jews, to Italians, to Irish, to the Chinese - for a supposedly tolerant country we really have a crappy track record.
05-12-2010, 06:35 PM
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Basically, the Mexicans are merely following a long history in America of targeting the immigrant population that happens to be coming over the most at the time, from Jews, to Italians, to Irish, to the Chinese - for a supposedly tolerant country we really have a crappy track record.
05-12-2010, 06:49 PM
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Yes there have always been politicians who played the anti-immigrant card, such as the infamous "Know Nothing" party. And on many occassions, the anti-immigrant politicians have won the day. For example, the Republicans turned against their own President, President Bush, when he tried to do even modest reforms to the immigration law. But they have not always won. M great grandparents were able to come here in the 1890s. I would not want to deny those same opportunities to others simply because they have a skin color that the racists don't like.
05-12-2010, 07:30 PM
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As far as the issue of gang violence, the difference is that US gangs can be tried and convicted in US courts, illegal immigrants with gang ties cannot, and they are usually handed back to mexican officials which are fairly corrupt in itself.
I think this law attempts to deal with the immigrants who do not wish to naturalize into the country. I wouldn't support any law that restricts a person or peoples ability to become a citizen, but this law (poorly) targets those who either refuse to do so because its easier not to and there is an enviornment within this country that makes it possible to exist without being a citizen or migrant worker
the law itself isnt racist, i think what is racist is allowing people to get away with actions based on their race/culture and giving them a free pass.
In WA you CANNOT get a job without showing your job an official birth certificate
that should be the standard across the US
I think this law attempts to deal with the immigrants who do not wish to naturalize into the country. I wouldn't support any law that restricts a person or peoples ability to become a citizen, but this law (poorly) targets those who either refuse to do so because its easier not to and there is an enviornment within this country that makes it possible to exist without being a citizen or migrant worker
the law itself isnt racist, i think what is racist is allowing people to get away with actions based on their race/culture and giving them a free pass.
In WA you CANNOT get a job without showing your job an official birth certificate
that should be the standard across the US
05-12-2010, 07:48 PM
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As far as the issue of gang violence, the difference is that US gangs can be tried and convicted in US courts, illegal immigrants with gang ties cannot, and they are usually handed back to mexican officials which are fairly corrupt in itself.
I think this law attempts to deal with the immigrants who do not wish to naturalize into the country. I wouldn't support any law that restricts a person or peoples ability to become a citizen, but this law (poorly) targets those who either refuse to do so because its easier not to and there is an enviornment within this country that makes it possible to exist without being a citizen or migrant worker
the law itself isnt racist, i think what is racist is allowing people to get away with actions based on their race/culture and giving them a free pass.
In WA you CANNOT get a job without showing your job an official birth certificate
that should be the standard across the US
I think this law attempts to deal with the immigrants who do not wish to naturalize into the country. I wouldn't support any law that restricts a person or peoples ability to become a citizen, but this law (poorly) targets those who either refuse to do so because its easier not to and there is an enviornment within this country that makes it possible to exist without being a citizen or migrant worker
the law itself isnt racist, i think what is racist is allowing people to get away with actions based on their race/culture and giving them a free pass.
In WA you CANNOT get a job without showing your job an official birth certificate
that should be the standard across the US
Bottom line, the law is racist, maybe not in wording, but in intent and execution it definitely is. I don't want gang bangers or any other criminal here either - legally or illegally, and I think all states should be like Texas when it comes to crime - take someone's life expect the state to take yours in return, they even have an express lane
That said, to persecute (or prosecute) someone because they speak with an accent or have a permanent tan is wrong, no matter how you try to justify it.
You have to remember the state we're talking about, Arizona, where they are so racist they only recognized MLK day when they wanted a Super Bowl. they have really taken the "bucktooth hick" role and run with it.
05-12-2010, 08:42 PM
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What is the solution then? The border states have had a very hard time getting actual federal backing and most of them have to foot the bills of the stress it puts on the local economies
and this whole argument that illegals do the work regular americans wont do is BS, they just do the work for ALOT less. Try living in Tacoma, people work all types of shitty jobs because it pays them to do it.
Yes a BC can be faked, but they do background checks before they hire you, some places it can take almost a month to verify your status to work in WA.
I think the law needs to be revised a bit more, but its a step that no other state or the government is willing to take to enforce the border laws.
and this whole argument that illegals do the work regular americans wont do is BS, they just do the work for ALOT less. Try living in Tacoma, people work all types of shitty jobs because it pays them to do it.
Yes a BC can be faked, but they do background checks before they hire you, some places it can take almost a month to verify your status to work in WA.
I think the law needs to be revised a bit more, but its a step that no other state or the government is willing to take to enforce the border laws.
05-13-2010, 05:40 AM
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What is the solution then? The border states have had a very hard time getting actual federal backing and most of them have to foot the bills of the stress it puts on the local economies
and this whole argument that illegals do the work regular americans wont do is BS, they just do the work for ALOT less. Try living in Tacoma, people work all types of shitty jobs because it pays them to do it.
Yes a BC can be faked, but they do background checks before they hire you, some places it can take almost a month to verify your status to work in WA.
I think the law needs to be revised a bit more, but its a step that no other state or the government is willing to take to enforce the border laws.
and this whole argument that illegals do the work regular americans wont do is BS, they just do the work for ALOT less. Try living in Tacoma, people work all types of shitty jobs because it pays them to do it.
Yes a BC can be faked, but they do background checks before they hire you, some places it can take almost a month to verify your status to work in WA.
I think the law needs to be revised a bit more, but its a step that no other state or the government is willing to take to enforce the border laws.
The benefit of illegals is this: If Americans have to go work the field they will unionize in seconds and a salad will cost you $90 and be inferior to what you have now. Why? Because unions are the lowest form of life and breed nothing but laziness and disregard for good work or good work ethic. There is a reason China, Mexico, and others kick our butt in manufacturing.
Example: Currently the Boeing mechanics here in Long Beach are on strike, why? Because the company has been providing healthcare and retirement at no cost to them and would like them to contribute some. WTF?!?!?! The strike isn't about wages, they admit they make good money, it isn't about working conditions, they admit they are very happy working there. It's about the fact that the company can no longer afford to foot the bill for their healthcare and retirement (which is what doomed GM and Chrysler as well) because the number of retirees keeps growing and the funds are not there to support it. Fire em all and get some of the millions of eager unemployed people to go work there, I am sure they will have no problem contributing - like the rest of us do.
05-13-2010, 11:17 AM
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I agree that the current law needs to be tweaked, but more importantly it needs to be ENFORCED. The Federal laws regarding immigration are pretty strict, the problem is the lack of enforcement.
The benefit of illegals is this: If Americans have to go work the field they will unionize in seconds and a salad will cost you $90 and be inferior to what you have now. Why? Because unions are the lowest form of life and breed nothing but laziness and disregard for good work or good work ethic. There is a reason China, Mexico, and others kick our butt in manufacturing.
Example: Currently the Boeing mechanics here in Long Beach are on strike, why? Because the company has been providing healthcare and retirement at no cost to them and would like them to contribute some. WTF?!?!?! The strike isn't about wages, they admit they make good money, it isn't about working conditions, they admit they are very happy working there. It's about the fact that the company can no longer afford to foot the bill for their healthcare and retirement (which is what doomed GM and Chrysler as well) because the number of retirees keeps growing and the funds are not there to support it. Fire em all and get some of the millions of eager unemployed people to go work there, I am sure they will have no problem contributing - like the rest of us do.
The benefit of illegals is this: If Americans have to go work the field they will unionize in seconds and a salad will cost you $90 and be inferior to what you have now. Why? Because unions are the lowest form of life and breed nothing but laziness and disregard for good work or good work ethic. There is a reason China, Mexico, and others kick our butt in manufacturing.
Example: Currently the Boeing mechanics here in Long Beach are on strike, why? Because the company has been providing healthcare and retirement at no cost to them and would like them to contribute some. WTF?!?!?! The strike isn't about wages, they admit they make good money, it isn't about working conditions, they admit they are very happy working there. It's about the fact that the company can no longer afford to foot the bill for their healthcare and retirement (which is what doomed GM and Chrysler as well) because the number of retirees keeps growing and the funds are not there to support it. Fire em all and get some of the millions of eager unemployed people to go work there, I am sure they will have no problem contributing - like the rest of us do.
few businesses in the US have unions and its usually only the major companies, so i really dont worry about that in economics.
With the current immigration laws, how do you enforce them without making it seem like racial profiling? its damn impossible and the ACLU is all over border patrol all the time for it