Nidal Malik Hassan
11-06-2009, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BMRMEUP' post='1049274' date='Nov 6 2009, 10:36 PM
This troubles me as well.
?I may be completely wrong... I just don't HEAR a moderate Muslim voice.
11-06-2009, 07:24 PM
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(Roger) "I have no sympathy for "moderate" Muslims either. Maybe it has happened somewhere, but I have yet to see a "rally of outrage" by moderate Muslims to dissacociate themselves from the radicals. This leads me to believe that radicalists proliferate most Muslim communities and the radicals have the most influence. "
PM me and I can forward you these articals in full:
CAIR backs Fatwa against Terrorism. English, Arabic, Urdu radio anti-terror PSAs released (Washington, D.C., 7/28/05) - The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) today offered its support for a fatwa, or Islamic religious ruling, against terrorism and extremism issued by the Fiqh Council of North America (FCNA) and endorsed by more than 120 U.S. Muslim groups, leaders and institutions.
The ?Not in the Name of Islam? petition states: ?We, the undersigned Muslims, wish to state clearly that those who commit acts of terror, murder and cruelty in the name of Islam are not only destroying innocent lives, but are also betraying the values of the faith they claim to represent. No injustice done to Muslims can ever justify the massacre of innocent people, and no act of terror will ever serve the cause of Islam. We repudiate and dissociate ourselves from any Muslim group or individual who commits such brutal and un-Islamic acts. We refuse to allow our faith to be held hostage by the criminal actions of a tiny minority acting outside the teachings of both the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) has a clear record of consistently and persistently condemning terrorism. Yet American Muslim groups like CAIR get repeatedly asked the question why have Muslims not spoken out against terrorism? The fact is they have, but who is listening? This prompted one media commentator to ask, ?Are Muslims condemning terror to the deaf??
The Muslim Public Affairs Council-DC (MPAC-DC), the Islamic Society of North America Office for Interfaith and Community Alliances (ISNA) and the American Muslim Armed Forces and Veterans Affairs Council (AMAFVAC) completely denounce this barbaric act of violence.
ICNA stands together with the nation in denouncing the murderous acts at Fort Hood. The individuals responsible for this act must be brought to justice. We cannot and must not close our eyes to the murder of innocent people or any other act of violence,? said Dr. Zahid Bukhari, president of ICNA.
The list goes on and on.
PM me and I can forward you these articals in full:
CAIR backs Fatwa against Terrorism. English, Arabic, Urdu radio anti-terror PSAs released (Washington, D.C., 7/28/05) - The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) today offered its support for a fatwa, or Islamic religious ruling, against terrorism and extremism issued by the Fiqh Council of North America (FCNA) and endorsed by more than 120 U.S. Muslim groups, leaders and institutions.
The ?Not in the Name of Islam? petition states: ?We, the undersigned Muslims, wish to state clearly that those who commit acts of terror, murder and cruelty in the name of Islam are not only destroying innocent lives, but are also betraying the values of the faith they claim to represent. No injustice done to Muslims can ever justify the massacre of innocent people, and no act of terror will ever serve the cause of Islam. We repudiate and dissociate ourselves from any Muslim group or individual who commits such brutal and un-Islamic acts. We refuse to allow our faith to be held hostage by the criminal actions of a tiny minority acting outside the teachings of both the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) has a clear record of consistently and persistently condemning terrorism. Yet American Muslim groups like CAIR get repeatedly asked the question why have Muslims not spoken out against terrorism? The fact is they have, but who is listening? This prompted one media commentator to ask, ?Are Muslims condemning terror to the deaf??
The Muslim Public Affairs Council-DC (MPAC-DC), the Islamic Society of North America Office for Interfaith and Community Alliances (ISNA) and the American Muslim Armed Forces and Veterans Affairs Council (AMAFVAC) completely denounce this barbaric act of violence.
ICNA stands together with the nation in denouncing the murderous acts at Fort Hood. The individuals responsible for this act must be brought to justice. We cannot and must not close our eyes to the murder of innocent people or any other act of violence,? said Dr. Zahid Bukhari, president of ICNA.
The list goes on and on.
11-06-2009, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ahsan' post='1049287' date='Nov 6 2009, 11:03 PM
I disagree.
Just because you attended a couple of seminars on Islam does not make you an expert on the matter, just as a person who visits the beach is not an expert on the ocean and all it contains.
I have been a Muslim all my life and I can assure you that ANY form of extremism in Islam is forbidden.
Islam has been around for 1400 years and there are nearly a billion Muslims around the world who practice it every day, if extremism was truly what the Prophet preached (as you claim), then this world would have been a smothering piece of charcoal by now. That is not the case.
As for saying Allah Akbar.
Any individual who believes in God (even if he is Freaking deranged) will commonly perform some form of last rights before committing some action that they don?t believe they will live through, be that Crossing their chest, kissing the star of David or saying Allah Akbar.
However, saying Allah Akbar is not the prerequisite to doing something bad. On the contrary, Muslims say Allah Akbar while doing their 5 daily prayers. As a matter of fact, while this lunatic decided to go on a killing rampage that morning, the rest of us were do our morning prayer called Fajr. In it requires us to say Allah Akbar 22 times.
How many times is Allah Akbar said by Muslims daily?
Fajr 22 times
Zuhar 108 times
Asr 43 times
Magrib 50 times
Isa 93 times
Total 316 times daily
316 x billion = 316,000,000,000 daily.
By the way, for thoughts who don?t know, ?Allah Akbar? means ?God is great?.
Which God?
The God of:
Adam, Enoch, Noah, Eber, Salih, Abraham, Lot, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Jethro, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, Elijah, Elisha, Jonah, Ezekiel, Zechariah, John the Baptist, Jesus and Mohammed. (PBUT)
Islam is against all forms of murder be that of a single person or a mass of people, however people have often used religion to further their agenda and is not the exclusive to Islam. You don?t have to look hard or far in history to find many people, tribes, civilizations and cultures that were annihilated by Christians. However, I am NOT of the belief that this was reflective of the teachings of Christianity just like the actions of these extremist and terrorist are not reflective of Islam.
Just because you attended a couple of seminars on Islam does not make you an expert on the matter, just as a person who visits the beach is not an expert on the ocean and all it contains.
I have been a Muslim all my life and I can assure you that ANY form of extremism in Islam is forbidden.
Islam has been around for 1400 years and there are nearly a billion Muslims around the world who practice it every day, if extremism was truly what the Prophet preached (as you claim), then this world would have been a smothering piece of charcoal by now. That is not the case.
As for saying Allah Akbar.
Any individual who believes in God (even if he is Freaking deranged) will commonly perform some form of last rights before committing some action that they don?t believe they will live through, be that Crossing their chest, kissing the star of David or saying Allah Akbar.
However, saying Allah Akbar is not the prerequisite to doing something bad. On the contrary, Muslims say Allah Akbar while doing their 5 daily prayers. As a matter of fact, while this lunatic decided to go on a killing rampage that morning, the rest of us were do our morning prayer called Fajr. In it requires us to say Allah Akbar 22 times.
How many times is Allah Akbar said by Muslims daily?
Fajr 22 times
Zuhar 108 times
Asr 43 times
Magrib 50 times
Isa 93 times
Total 316 times daily
316 x billion = 316,000,000,000 daily.
By the way, for thoughts who don?t know, ?Allah Akbar? means ?God is great?.
Which God?
The God of:
Adam, Enoch, Noah, Eber, Salih, Abraham, Lot, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Jethro, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, Elijah, Elisha, Jonah, Ezekiel, Zechariah, John the Baptist, Jesus and Mohammed. (PBUT)
Islam is against all forms of murder be that of a single person or a mass of people, however people have often used religion to further their agenda and is not the exclusive to Islam. You don?t have to look hard or far in history to find many people, tribes, civilizations and cultures that were annihilated by Christians. However, I am NOT of the belief that this was reflective of the teachings of Christianity just like the actions of these extremist and terrorist are not reflective of Islam.
The fact that you know how many times "Allah Akbar" is "said" daily... makes you an extremist!
11-06-2009, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Ahsan' post='1049299' date='Nov 6 2009, 11:24 PM
(Roger) "I have no sympathy for "moderate" Muslims either. Maybe it has happened somewhere, but I have yet to see a "rally of outrage" by moderate Muslims to dissacociate themselves from the radicals. This leads me to believe that radicalists proliferate most Muslim communities and the radicals have the most influence. "
PM me and I can forward you these articals in full:
CAIR backs Fatwa against Terrorism. English, Arabic, Urdu radio anti-terror PSAs released (Washington, D.C., 7/28/05) - The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) today offered its support for a fatwa, or Islamic religious ruling, against terrorism and extremism issued by the Fiqh Council of North America (FCNA) and endorsed by more than 120 U.S. Muslim groups, leaders and institutions.
The “Not in the Name of Islam” petition states: “We, the undersigned Muslims, wish to state clearly that those who commit acts of terror, murder and cruelty in the name of Islam are not only destroying innocent lives, but are also betraying the values of the faith they claim to represent. No injustice done to Muslims can ever justify the massacre of innocent people, and no act of terror will ever serve the cause of Islam. We repudiate and dissociate ourselves from any Muslim group or individual who commits such brutal and un-Islamic acts. We refuse to allow our faith to be held hostage by the criminal actions of a tiny minority acting outside the teachings of both the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) has a clear record of consistently and persistently condemning terrorism. Yet American Muslim groups like CAIR get repeatedly asked the question why have Muslims not spoken out against terrorism? The fact is they have, but who is listening? This prompted one media commentator to ask, “Are Muslims condemning terror to the deaf?”
The Muslim Public Affairs Council-DC (MPAC-DC), the Islamic Society of North America Office for Interfaith and Community Alliances (ISNA) and the American Muslim Armed Forces and Veterans Affairs Council (AMAFVAC) completely denounce this barbaric act of violence.
ICNA stands together with the nation in denouncing the murderous acts at Fort Hood. The individuals responsible for this act must be brought to justice. We cannot and must not close our eyes to the murder of innocent people or any other act of violence,” said Dr. Zahid Bukhari, president of ICNA.
The list goes on and on.
PM me and I can forward you these articals in full:
CAIR backs Fatwa against Terrorism. English, Arabic, Urdu radio anti-terror PSAs released (Washington, D.C., 7/28/05) - The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) today offered its support for a fatwa, or Islamic religious ruling, against terrorism and extremism issued by the Fiqh Council of North America (FCNA) and endorsed by more than 120 U.S. Muslim groups, leaders and institutions.
The “Not in the Name of Islam” petition states: “We, the undersigned Muslims, wish to state clearly that those who commit acts of terror, murder and cruelty in the name of Islam are not only destroying innocent lives, but are also betraying the values of the faith they claim to represent. No injustice done to Muslims can ever justify the massacre of innocent people, and no act of terror will ever serve the cause of Islam. We repudiate and dissociate ourselves from any Muslim group or individual who commits such brutal and un-Islamic acts. We refuse to allow our faith to be held hostage by the criminal actions of a tiny minority acting outside the teachings of both the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) has a clear record of consistently and persistently condemning terrorism. Yet American Muslim groups like CAIR get repeatedly asked the question why have Muslims not spoken out against terrorism? The fact is they have, but who is listening? This prompted one media commentator to ask, “Are Muslims condemning terror to the deaf?”
The Muslim Public Affairs Council-DC (MPAC-DC), the Islamic Society of North America Office for Interfaith and Community Alliances (ISNA) and the American Muslim Armed Forces and Veterans Affairs Council (AMAFVAC) completely denounce this barbaric act of violence.
ICNA stands together with the nation in denouncing the murderous acts at Fort Hood. The individuals responsible for this act must be brought to justice. We cannot and must not close our eyes to the murder of innocent people or any other act of violence,” said Dr. Zahid Bukhari, president of ICNA.
The list goes on and on.
Why do we have to dig through obscure publications to find opposition to Muslim extremism? The extremist voice is loud and clear everywhere. Why is the opposition not as equally loud and prevalent?
11-06-2009, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by CWS530' post='1048989' date='Nov 6 2009, 11:42 AM
A name is not a red flag in an open, global society, Ian. I'm not talking "pie in the sky," but all cultures, names, etc. are so diverse, there simply is no way to profile in that way. That's one of the freedoms those very soldiers died to protect. It's sadly ironic, but the essence of democracy.
red flag?
11-06-2009, 09:26 PM
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Jeez I haven't even watched the news today I gotta chck what Phil wrote about another shooting ?! TWIF
(the world is fucked)
(the world is fucked)
11-07-2009, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by rogerj' post='1049302' date='Nov 6 2009, 10:29 PM
Good thing that your religion prohibits extremism... What would the world do if Islam allowed it?
The fact that you know how many times "Allah Akbar" is "said" daily... makes you an extremist!
The fact that you know how many times "Allah Akbar" is "said" daily... makes you an extremist!
Cmon rogerj? What you have is someone trying to share facts with you, because you know the history doesnt make you an extremist. We have to or should be respectful of one another's beliefs.
Nadal, was an individual with extreme views that finally cracked when he was going to have to go to the combat zone and be in a situation where he felt he was in contra of his fellow muslims. It appears he had become so devout over time that going to Iraq/Afghanistan was not an option and this triggered the insane response.
The media rarely gives airtime to the average muslims, but unlimited to the extremists.
What we should be doing is figuring out how to better identify and separate those from the military who have these extreme views.
If you are in the military and expressing your die hard sympathy/support for those we are at war against than you need to be discharged PERIOD! I dont think we can any longer allow this free speech in the military to be so permissive that we have people like this serving.
I dont have the answers but i know that it was a hard day yesterday working at my HQ processing the names of those injured and killed so we could find replacements for them.
11-07-2009, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by lightfytr' post='1049418' date='Nov 7 2009, 07:21 AM
The media rarely gives airtime to the average muslims, but unlimited to the extremists.
Unfortunately, when only one voice is heard, all tend to be painted with the same brush. Thank you Ahsa for a considered response.
Lightfytr, my heartfelt sympathy and support goes out to all those in the military family affected by the shooting, doubly tragic because it was an un-necessary loss.
11-07-2009, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by rogerj' post='1049302' date='Nov 6 2009, 10:29 PM
Good thing that your religion prohibits extremism... What would the world do if Islam allowed it?
The fact that you know how many times "Allah Akbar" is "said" daily... makes you an extremist!
The fact that you know how many times "Allah Akbar" is "said" daily... makes you an extremist!
How about this? Does the KKK represent you? They're all about white power so they represent everyone who is white, right? I know it's not a religion, but you get the idea. I certainly don't want to be judged on their actions or beliefs just because I happen to be white.
11-07-2009, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by rogerj' post='1049302' date='Nov 6 2009, 11:29 PM
Good thing that your religion prohibits extremism... What would the world do if Islam allowed it?
The fact that you know how many times "Allah Akbar" is "said" daily... makes you an extremist!
The fact that you know how many times "Allah Akbar" is "said" daily... makes you an extremist!
I grew up in the States, Kindergarten - College in New York, went on to work in Philli, Dallas and now Louisville, in 42 years you are the first person who as ever called me an extremist :thumbsdown:
Wait I take that back, my wife has called me an extremist when it comes to parking my E60 at the mall.
