This health care reform debate is crazy!
08-13-2009, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by melimel' post='974977' date='Aug 13 2009, 09:07 AM
seriously this thread sucks ass!
08-13-2009, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by melimel' post='974977' date='Aug 13 2009, 07:07 AM
man wtf! damm im annoyed this morning!
(its the rain)
(its the rain)
Mel ~ send us in Cali some that rain you all have been in getting in NY...we NEED it....
08-13-2009, 08:31 AM
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EVERY developed country in the world has socialized medicine except for the US. yet the USA spends TWO times as much on healthcare than europe, and THREE times as much as asia, and yet we have the WORSE outcomes. now you can argue thats because we're a country of fat slobs...which is true to a certain extent...1 out of 3 people born after 2000 will develop diabetes in their lifetime, so there has to be a social change as well (i say tax the hell out of mcdonalds and burger king...but thats just my suggestion)
http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/p...e/en/index.html
"WHO's assessment system was based on five indicators: overall level of population health; health inequalities (or disparities) within the population; overall level of health system responsiveness (a combination of patient satisfaction and how well the system acts); distribution of responsiveness within the population (how well people of varying economic status find that they are served by the health system); and the distribution of the health system's financial burden within the population (who pays the costs)."
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/21/world/eu...html?sec=health
"The five measures used are: overall level of health or life expectancy; health fairness or life expectancy as measured across various populations within a country; responsiveness or how well people rated performance of their health care system; fairness in responsiveness among different groups in the same country; and fairness in financing among different groups, which looked at what proportion of income is devoted to health care.
According to the report, the five top nations for health care were France, Italy, San Marino, Andorra and Malta.
One surprise in the findings, said Dr. David Evans of the W.H.O.'s Global Program on Evidence for Health Policy, was the good rankings for southern European countries such as Italy and Spain."
''People in those countries don't believe their health systems are doing very well,'' he said.
Amazing, people in the top countries as rated by the WHO dislike their health care, while the majority of American's are satisfied with their current health care.
The report was based on FAIRNESS and cost was the main determining factor, not access to healthcare or quality of health care.
Of course health care will be cheaper in a third world country, does that mean I want their health care because the WHO deemed it better? Yeah, I'll fly to Slovenia for open heart surgery. 
These lower costs associated with better health care are achieved by rationing care. People are denied care, there is less care, hence it is cheaper. You get what you pay for.A BMW E60's cost is more than 3 times as much as a Ford Focus. By the WHO's assessment, the Taurus is a much better vehicle. By the WHO's estimate it is not FAIR that I drive a BMW while someone else drives a Focus. Instead of aspiring that everyone drive a BMW, national health care aspires to have everyone in the US drive a Focus. Again, our gov't sets out to tear down inequities by lowering standards instead or raising the bar. This is the problem with SOCIALISM. Everyone loses.
BTW, China is ranked 144...you know why? They no longer have public healthcare. Shame on them.
I agree, we must do something socially but taxing corporations is not the answer. How about holding individuals accountable for their behavior? How about allowing insurance companies to assess risk like car insurance companies and charge consumers accordingly? How about tort reform to reduce the cost malpractice insurance?
Originally Posted by pjinca' post='974966' date='Aug 13 2009, 08:50 AM
Ask and Ye Shall Receive:
http://forum.stirpes.net/biology-medicine/...e-rankings.html
Go figure, huh, thought I pulled the #'s out of my arse?
http://forum.stirpes.net/biology-medicine/...e-rankings.html
Go figure, huh, thought I pulled the #'s out of my arse?
08-13-2009, 09:02 AM
#94
Originally Posted by DRANGED' post='975151' date='Aug 13 2009, 11:31 AM
Ahh yes, the UN. A completely non-partisan group who always has the United States best interest in mind. 
The WHO/UN is a joke.
Did you bother to read the report or just accept the rankings? It was not based on quality of healthcare.
http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/p...e/en/index.html
"WHO's assessment system was based on five indicators: overall level of population health; health inequalities (or disparities) within the population; overall level of health system responsiveness (a combination of patient satisfaction and how well the system acts); distribution of responsiveness within the population (how well people of varying economic status find that they are served by the health system); and the distribution of the health system's financial burden within the population (who pays the costs)."
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/21/world/eu...html?sec=health
"The five measures used are: overall level of health or life expectancy; health fairness or life expectancy as measured across various populations within a country; responsiveness or how well people rated performance of their health care system; fairness in responsiveness among different groups in the same country; and fairness in financing among different groups, which looked at what proportion of income is devoted to health care.
According to the report, the five top nations for health care were France, Italy, San Marino, Andorra and Malta.
One surprise in the findings, said Dr. David Evans of the W.H.O.'s Global Program on Evidence for Health Policy, was the good rankings for southern European countries such as Italy and Spain."
''People in those countries don't believe their health systems are doing very well,'' he said.
Amazing, people in the top countries as rated by the WHO dislike their health care, while the majority of American's are satisfied with their current health care.
The report was based on FAIRNESS and cost was the main determining factor, not access to healthcare or quality of health care. Of course health care will be cheaper in a third world country, does that mean I want their health care because the WHO deemed it better? Yeah, I'll fly to Slovenia for open heart surgery. These lower costs associated with better health care are achieved by rationing care. People are denied care, there is less care, hence it is cheaper. You get what you pay for.
A BMW E60's cost is more than 3 times as much as a Ford Focus. By the WHO's assessment, the Taurus is a much better vehicle. By the WHO's estimate it is not FAIR that I drive a BMW while someone else drives a Focus. Instead of aspiring that everyone drive a BMW, national health care aspires to have everyone in the US drive a Focus. Again, our gov't sets out to tear down inequities by lowering standards instead or raising the bar. This is the problem with SOCIALISM. Everyone loses.
BTW, China is ranked 144...you know why? They no longer have public healthcare. Shame on them.
I agree, we must do something socially but taxing corporations is not the answer. How about holding individuals accountable for their behavior? How about allowing insurance companies to assess risk like car insurance companies and charge consumers accordingly? How about tort reform to reduce the cost malpractice insurance?
I know where the ranking came from, the UN. A completely worthless organization that is incapable of any task it sets out to undertake. It might as well have come from your ass, the UN is shitty and stinks.
The WHO/UN is a joke.Did you bother to read the report or just accept the rankings? It was not based on quality of healthcare.
http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/p...e/en/index.html
"WHO's assessment system was based on five indicators: overall level of population health; health inequalities (or disparities) within the population; overall level of health system responsiveness (a combination of patient satisfaction and how well the system acts); distribution of responsiveness within the population (how well people of varying economic status find that they are served by the health system); and the distribution of the health system's financial burden within the population (who pays the costs)."
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/21/world/eu...html?sec=health
"The five measures used are: overall level of health or life expectancy; health fairness or life expectancy as measured across various populations within a country; responsiveness or how well people rated performance of their health care system; fairness in responsiveness among different groups in the same country; and fairness in financing among different groups, which looked at what proportion of income is devoted to health care.
According to the report, the five top nations for health care were France, Italy, San Marino, Andorra and Malta.
One surprise in the findings, said Dr. David Evans of the W.H.O.'s Global Program on Evidence for Health Policy, was the good rankings for southern European countries such as Italy and Spain."
''People in those countries don't believe their health systems are doing very well,'' he said.
Amazing, people in the top countries as rated by the WHO dislike their health care, while the majority of American's are satisfied with their current health care.
The report was based on FAIRNESS and cost was the main determining factor, not access to healthcare or quality of health care.
Of course health care will be cheaper in a third world country, does that mean I want their health care because the WHO deemed it better? Yeah, I'll fly to Slovenia for open heart surgery. These lower costs associated with better health care are achieved by rationing care. People are denied care, there is less care, hence it is cheaper. You get what you pay for.A BMW E60's cost is more than 3 times as much as a Ford Focus. By the WHO's assessment, the Taurus is a much better vehicle. By the WHO's estimate it is not FAIR that I drive a BMW while someone else drives a Focus. Instead of aspiring that everyone drive a BMW, national health care aspires to have everyone in the US drive a Focus. Again, our gov't sets out to tear down inequities by lowering standards instead or raising the bar. This is the problem with SOCIALISM. Everyone loses.
BTW, China is ranked 144...you know why? They no longer have public healthcare. Shame on them.
I agree, we must do something socially but taxing corporations is not the answer. How about holding individuals accountable for their behavior? How about allowing insurance companies to assess risk like car insurance companies and charge consumers accordingly? How about tort reform to reduce the cost malpractice insurance?
I know where the ranking came from, the UN. A completely worthless organization that is incapable of any task it sets out to undertake. It might as well have come from your ass, the UN is shitty and stinks.
08-13-2009, 09:04 AM
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Our gov't run social programs are a complete and utter failure. Social Security, BANKRUPT. Medicare, BANKRUPT. Medicaid, BANKRUPT. Public Schools, FAILURE. Yet we should trust our HEALTH to the gov't?? One should never trust or depend on the gov't for anything.
BTW, can anyone tell me something that the public sector, ie. gov't, does better and cheaper than the private sector? I'll give you a hint...NOTHING.
No seriously, they will do a great job with health care...you'll see. BWAHAHAHA!
One should never trust or depend on the gov't for anything.BTW, can anyone tell me something that the public sector, ie. gov't, does better and cheaper than the private sector? I'll give you a hint...NOTHING.
No seriously, they will do a great job with health care...you'll see. BWAHAHAHA!
08-13-2009, 09:21 AM
#97
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Originally Posted by DRANGED' post='974609' date='Aug 12 2009, 08:39 PM
You said "colored". This word, along with the N-word is no longer socially acceptable and are considered derogatory terms. Only Obama's mentor Reverend Wright can use such hateful racist terms. BTW, do I need to remind everyone what Obama said about his Grandmother...He said she was "A typical white person"
Brett was making a joke, settle down racist police.
Brett was making a joke, settle down racist police.
08-13-2009, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by unknown' post='975202' date='Aug 13 2009, 12:23 PM
forget madoff; thats the biggest ponzi scheme ever!
08-13-2009, 09:25 AM
#100
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='974620' date='Aug 12 2009, 08:48 PM
The posts were far from funny, John. One of the most egregious is reproduced below. And I don't think it's something that ought to be defended.
"Its very different. If Barrack Obama was white, how many of these first time voting color persons would of come out to vote for another battle between to "crackers" running for president? Hmmm what demographic typically has the worst turn out in elections? Hmmm those colored brotha's are the ones who typically dont come out and vote.....but when a black man was running they crawled out from the wood work like a bunch of roach's during a feeding frenzy. Correct me if im wrong"
"Its very different. If Barrack Obama was white, how many of these first time voting color persons would of come out to vote for another battle between to "crackers" running for president? Hmmm what demographic typically has the worst turn out in elections? Hmmm those colored brotha's are the ones who typically dont come out and vote.....but when a black man was running they crawled out from the wood work like a bunch of roach's during a feeding frenzy. Correct me if im wrong"