Formula One 2008 (Rd.16, JAPANESE GRAND PRIX)
#111
I was looking at some photos after the race and I think the BMWs were running with as little down force as they could get away with. The angle of the front wing and the small rear wing seem to indicate they didn't have the top end speed they needed. They trimmed back the wings to get closer to speeds that Ferrari was turning. I am afraid that this will be the story all year. The BMW engine isn't as fast as the Ferraris but hopefully its close to or better than the McLarens. The Ferraris had it working because they could run with quite a bit of down force and had the best engine speed. BMW should be more competitive at the high down force tracks and maybe there will more problems with Ferrari reliability and McLaren won't get their act together. The lack of engine development means its all Ferrari and no one can catch up I am afraid.
#112
Found it very arrogant of Hamilton when he showed his fist while overtaking the lower-ranked drivers - he did not quite realize that they were racing for positions with no blue flags, as he is usually used to...
#113
You obviously missed my (it's early days yet) qualifier.....
It's not about him making mistakes, I'd say it's more remarkable that he dosen't make more,........the problem I see with Hamilton (...and granted I didn't spell it out) is that he has the tendency to have these long periods (often during the middle stint) where he turns mid pack type lap times while the elite drivers are banging out fastest lap times. This has happend in almost all his races, regardless of his position but most often when he is down in the order like he was today. Next race, bring up live timing from Formula1.com & watch his lap times, vs. that of his rivals & team mate.
It's not about him making mistakes, I'd say it's more remarkable that he dosen't make more,........the problem I see with Hamilton (...and granted I didn't spell it out) is that he has the tendency to have these long periods (often during the middle stint) where he turns mid pack type lap times while the elite drivers are banging out fastest lap times. This has happend in almost all his races, regardless of his position but most often when he is down in the order like he was today. Next race, bring up live timing from Formula1.com & watch his lap times, vs. that of his rivals & team mate.
#114
Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC' post='557192' date='Apr 7 2008, 06:12 AM
Exactly, that gesture he made towards Fisichella when he passed him for position. What does he expect people to pull over for him? This is the cocky personality I was talking about last season. I think it was covered up by Alonso's horrible attitude last year. The kid Hamilton does have an attitude, he needs to grow up. But he is very young and has many years ahead of him to mature.
I was expecting him to turn fast laps and get into the points by the end of the race. I have seen it done so many times by the top drivers/cars. He had his nose changed in the first few laps, then he just dissappeared.
I was expecting him to turn fast laps and get into the points by the end of the race. I have seen it done so many times by the top drivers/cars. He had his nose changed in the first few laps, then he just dissappeared.
I said plenty of time i sensed the kid has an attitude hidden away in the gentle attitude at interviews but people called Alonso mofo for everything.
I'm eager to see the next races and how the Mclarens stack up.
#115
Contributors
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,618
Likes: 0
From: FLA - East Coast, USA
My Ride: (USA) 645Ci, Silver Gray, Chateau, Cold Weather PKG, Premium Sound PKG, Sport PKG, Step, NAV [Std Equip in 645], HUD, Satellite (SIRIUS) Radio, Aux Input, Bluetooth enabled using iPhone 3GS w/ adapter cradle - Build date - 01/05, Baby delivered 2/24/05
Originally Posted by sbdon' post='557053' date='Apr 6 2008, 04:43 PM
I was looking at some photos after the race and I think the BMWs were running with as little down force as they could get away with. The angle of the front wing and the small rear wing seem to indicate they didn't have the top end speed they needed. They trimmed back the wings to get closer to speeds that Ferrari was turning. I am afraid that this will be the story all year. The BMW engine isn't as fast as the Ferraris but hopefully its close to or better than the McLarens. The Ferraris had it working because they could run with quite a bit of down force and had the best engine speed. BMW should be more competitive at the high down force tracks and maybe there will more problems with Ferrari reliability and McLaren won't get their act together. The lack of engine development means its all Ferrari and no one can catch up I am afraid.
#116
The races this year have all been great fun to watch. Just a few comments -
1. Hamilton is a very talented driver but its too early to proclaim him the second coming of Schumi. He had a good rookie season while driving the best car on the grid. And, he had the vastly more experienced Alonso to help the team with car set-up. This year its a team of relative newcomers and I think they miss the input of someone like Alonso in the driver's seat. IMHO.
2. The BMW Sauber team has done a great job. I don't think they were running too little wing. If that was the case they would have been faser in the straight. As cobradav pointed out, they were down on speed to the other teams on top end. They will get better as the season progresses. I think there is a lot of potential in the new design.
3. I think the other teams to watch are Toyota and Williams. It appears the Toyota engine is pretty good and it is clear that the factory team has benefitted from the Williams relationship. I think they could both be ready to step up to the BMW level. Trulli never stops racing as was evidenced yesterday and Nico is a talent equal to Hamilton. I would love to see Hamilton and Nico in equal equipment as I am not sure Hamilton would prevail.
4. In general, the entire grid is better this year, except for Super Aguri. Most teams seem capable of putting in some good laps.
It's going to be a great season!
1. Hamilton is a very talented driver but its too early to proclaim him the second coming of Schumi. He had a good rookie season while driving the best car on the grid. And, he had the vastly more experienced Alonso to help the team with car set-up. This year its a team of relative newcomers and I think they miss the input of someone like Alonso in the driver's seat. IMHO.
2. The BMW Sauber team has done a great job. I don't think they were running too little wing. If that was the case they would have been faser in the straight. As cobradav pointed out, they were down on speed to the other teams on top end. They will get better as the season progresses. I think there is a lot of potential in the new design.
3. I think the other teams to watch are Toyota and Williams. It appears the Toyota engine is pretty good and it is clear that the factory team has benefitted from the Williams relationship. I think they could both be ready to step up to the BMW level. Trulli never stops racing as was evidenced yesterday and Nico is a talent equal to Hamilton. I would love to see Hamilton and Nico in equal equipment as I am not sure Hamilton would prevail.
4. In general, the entire grid is better this year, except for Super Aguri. Most teams seem capable of putting in some good laps.
It's going to be a great season!
#117
Thread Starter
Contributors
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 0
From: South Florida
My Ride: 2008 535i w/ Sports & Permium Pkg. Silv/Blk
2008 VW R32 w/Nav.
1992 VW Corrado Silv/Blk-retired
2001 530i Sports/Premium-retired
Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC' post='557192' date='Apr 6 2008, 11:12 PM
........that gesture he made towards Fisichella when he passed him for position. What does he expect people to pull over for him? This is the cocky personality I was talking about last season.
I was expecting him to turn fast laps and get into the points by the end of the race. I have seen it done so many times by the top drivers/cars. He had his nose changed in the first few laps, then he just dissappeared.
What the gesture suggest though, is the inability to grasp the reality of his situation in the race, and what is required of him. So instead of pushing to get as many points as possiable after an early setback, he plods along waiting for people to move out of his way, never realising he is actually racing them fo position. This lack of 'big picture' vision is what I belive cost him the chance at history last season, when he drove to win the race in China instead driving to score points (7th would have won the title), the result was driving the wheels off the car & beaching it. BTW the team is equally to blame for China, but if Hamilton's head was in the right place, he would have insisted the car was undrivable and demanded to come in.
#118
Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' post='557289' date='Apr 7 2008, 02:58 AM
I'm eager to see the next races and how the Mclarens stack up.
#119
The Circuit de Catalunya is considered to be a medium to high down force track. This should bode well for the BMW team. This will mitigate, to some extent, the top speed advantage of the Ferraris. Of course, it does nothing to minimize the apparent good handling of the Ferraris. However, it is believed that many teams will be breaking out new aerodynamic devices for this race. Additionally, there will be practice at the track prior to the race. Obviously, some teams will make positive changes and others not so much. It will be interesting to see what changes, and their effects, the BMW team makes. If anyone has a link to a site that describes the aero bits on the BMW, I would be greatly interested. I still don't know what to make of the horns on the front and I believe I saw a strange piece of bodywork just aft of the front suspension in one photo.
#120
Thread Starter
Contributors
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 0
From: South Florida
My Ride: 2008 535i w/ Sports & Permium Pkg. Silv/Blk
2008 VW R32 w/Nav.
1992 VW Corrado Silv/Blk-retired
2001 530i Sports/Premium-retired
Originally Posted by sbdon' post='560294' date='Apr 12 2008, 11:13 AM
The Circuit de Catalunya is considered to be a medium to high down force track. This should bode well for the BMW team. This will mitigate, to some extent, the top speed advantage of the Ferraris. Of course, it does nothing to minimize the apparent good handling of the Ferraris. However, it is believed that many teams will be breaking out new aerodynamic devices for this race. Additionally, there will be practice at the track prior to the race. Obviously, some teams will make positive changes and others not so much. It will be interesting to see what changes, and their effects, the BMW team makes. If anyone has a link to a site that describes the aero bits on the BMW, I would be greatly interested. I still don't know what to make of the horns on the front and I believe I saw a strange piece of bodywork just aft of the front suspension in one photo.