Formula 1, 2009
#141
Originally Posted by Ben's 545i' post='829710' date='Mar 29 2009, 07:07 PM
Hurray for a 10 place grid penalty for Vettel. I was like Dumb move when he knew he wasn't going to be able to hold off Kubica. Kubica probably also could've waited until the exit...he seemed to have the tires and power to wait. The KERS was interesting with balancing the extra weight but getting the boost. You could see the gain when they used it but it's so short and with the extra weight I think it's not a whole lot of benefit.
Things still remain to be seen. I think a lot of manufacturers are still shaking down the cars as amazing as it seems. Pretty disappointed with the Ferrari's though.
Things still remain to be seen. I think a lot of manufacturers are still shaking down the cars as amazing as it seems. Pretty disappointed with the Ferrari's though.
Rumors say that in 2010 Kers will be able to give the driver an extra 150bhp.
#142
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Have to say, when I watched the race live last night, Kubica looked to me to be just as culpable as Vettel for the accident that took them both out.
#143
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='829749' date='Mar 29 2009, 08:03 PM
Have to say, when I watched the race live last night, Kubica looked to me to be just as culpable as Vettel for the accident that took them both out.
Kubica was going overtake Vettel no matter what, and he should have just let him (Kubica) by - who knows what would have happened when Kubica caught up to Button.
Vettel had no hope of keeping Kubica behind him, and his overly optimistic inside move cost him P3, and he admitted it on the radio, "I am an idiot, and I am sorry, so sorry."
Kubica would have won the race today... I say that as a very disappointed Ferrari fan-boi.
#144
Originally Posted by swajames' post='829749' date='Mar 29 2009, 08:03 PM
Have to say, when I watched the race live last night, Kubica looked to me to be just as culpable as Vettel for the accident that took them both out.
By my books and all other officials Vettel is 100% culpable. The driver may however intimidate the overpassing driver to force him to brake (unsporty though) on a pass like that. Meaning forcing the exterior overpassing car to choose between an potential hit and going off track. Vettel however hit him directly.
#145
Originally Posted by Patrick E61' post='829758' date='Mar 29 2009, 08:21 PM
For four laps before their shunt, Kubica, on prime tires, was 0.8 seconds per lap faster than Vettel, on super soft tires. Red Bull had to know that P3 was theirs if Vettel could keep it together. He didn't.
Kubica was going overtake Vettel no matter what, and he should have just let him (Kubica) by - who knows what would have happened when Kubica caught up to Button.
Vettel had no hope of keeping Kubica behind him, and his overly optimistic inside move cost him P3, and he admitted it on the radio, "I am an idiot, and I am sorry, so sorry."
Kubica would have won the race today... I say that as a very disappointed Ferrari fan-boi.
Kubica was going overtake Vettel no matter what, and he should have just let him (Kubica) by - who knows what would have happened when Kubica caught up to Button.
Vettel had no hope of keeping Kubica behind him, and his overly optimistic inside move cost him P3, and he admitted it on the radio, "I am an idiot, and I am sorry, so sorry."
Kubica would have won the race today... I say that as a very disappointed Ferrari fan-boi.
But you are 100% correct about Vettel and Kubica. Kubica was much faster than Vettel at that point.
LE: I sand corrected. It appears indeed Kubica was much faster than the frontrunners. http://www.bmw-sauber-f1.com/en/inde...#/news/~101|0/
#146
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Originally Posted by Patrick E61' post='829758' date='Mar 29 2009, 10:21 AM
For four laps before their shunt, Kubica, on prime tires, was 0.8 seconds per lap faster than Vettel, on super soft tires. Red Bull had to know that P3 was theirs if Vettel could keep it together. He didn't.
Kubica was going overtake Vettel no matter what, and he should have just let him (Kubica) by - who knows what would have happened when Kubica caught up to Button.
Vettel had no hope of keeping Kubica behind him, and his overly optimistic inside move cost him P3, and he admitted it on the radio, "I am an idiot, and I am sorry, so sorry."
Kubica would have won the race today... I say that as a very disappointed Ferrari fan-boi.
Kubica was going overtake Vettel no matter what, and he should have just let him (Kubica) by - who knows what would have happened when Kubica caught up to Button.
Vettel had no hope of keeping Kubica behind him, and his overly optimistic inside move cost him P3, and he admitted it on the radio, "I am an idiot, and I am sorry, so sorry."
Kubica would have won the race today... I say that as a very disappointed Ferrari fan-boi.
#147
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Originally Posted by Patrick E61' post='829758' date='Mar 29 2009, 01:21 PM
Kubica was going overtake Vettel no matter what, and he should have just let him (Kubica) by - who knows what would have happened when Kubica caught up to Button.
#148
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Originally Posted by MiamiPhill' post='829797' date='Mar 29 2009, 11:37 AM
Sorry, I don't agree (and as a BMW guy it pains me to say that) ....you never ever move over to 'let someone go by' when you are racing them for a podium spot with 3 laps to go & Robert should know that, (he would not have moved over either). The only exception would be if you are leading the championship late in the season and your closest rival can't catch you unless you fail to score points in the remaining races. in such a case you back down and take the points. With a little restraint Kubica would have made easy work of the RedBull at the next corner. Robert seem to have wanted Vettel to react to him like a back maker would....wrong calculation. Watch the clip and tell me where Vettel was supposed to go. http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/29/kubi...at-end-of-race/
No matter, it seems to be nothing more than a standard racing incident. Certainly not one where I'd be pointing the finger at Vettel.
#149
Originally Posted by swajames' post='829792' date='Mar 29 2009, 09:33 PM
If what you say were true, Kubica should have had the sense to back off and take Vettel later. As for Kubica winning? He'd have never have got past Button. No way. The Brawn GP is faster than the BMW, and Button's finally getting the hardware to show he's a much better driver than he ever got credit for. Take out the safety car incidents and Kubica would have been way back in the distance. Button was the rightful winner, and Kubica cost himself a place as much as Vettel cost himself one.
Regarding Button well i say it was possible to catch him and maybe even overtake. We'll never now i guess... Unless we get some last lap times to compare between the two of them.
If in PAris FIA will reject the contestants then i think all the other teams will adopt the rear diffuser, case in which on the 3rd race or so i don't see Brawn's advantage anymore, nor Totyota's for that matter.
#150
Originally Posted by swajames' post='829806' date='Mar 29 2009, 09:45 PM
Looking at that again I'd actually hold Kubica responsible as Vettel seemed to have the right line. Seems to me that Vettel was way too quick to apologize...
No matter, it seems to be nothing more than a standard racing incident. Certainly not one where I'd be pointing the finger at Vettel.
No matter, it seems to be nothing more than a standard racing incident. Certainly not one where I'd be pointing the finger at Vettel.
Based on this it is clear that one should be pointed the finger, and that one is Vettel.
The 21-year-old German, who came to prominence after winning the Italian Grand Prix at Monza last year, had tracked Button right from the start on Sunday.
But, with only three laps remaining, the Red Bull driver was slow through the first two corners, allowing Kubica to get alongside on the outside on Turn Three.
In the key part of the incident, which race stewards deemed to be the German's fault, the Red Bull's front wheel tagged the rear wheel of the BMW after the Pole had given Vettel room.
The result was that both cars tipped into a spin, damaging their front wings before they each crashed further around the lap.
And Vettel - a former BMW driver - continued on the track with one front wheel hanging off his car in a doomed attempt to stay in the race, earning Red Bull a fine in the process.
But, with only three laps remaining, the Red Bull driver was slow through the first two corners, allowing Kubica to get alongside on the outside on Turn Three.
In the key part of the incident, which race stewards deemed to be the German's fault, the Red Bull's front wheel tagged the rear wheel of the BMW after the Pole had given Vettel room.
The result was that both cars tipped into a spin, damaging their front wings before they each crashed further around the lap.
And Vettel - a former BMW driver - continued on the track with one front wheel hanging off his car in a doomed attempt to stay in the race, earning Red Bull a fine in the process.