Budapest GP
08-05-2007, 01:30 AM
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Iceman I just had battle on another post with you about team orders, I was saying they are a disgrace to the sport.
I gave the example of the Austria 2002 race when Rubens was told to hand the race win the Michael just yards before the finish line.
You jump right in to defend Ferrari and said it doesn't cheapen the sport.
Man you really need to make your mind up, ice.
By the way the McLaren situation in Quali about letting Alonso pass to head the session, wasn't team orders. Its a Quali strategy, there is only one pit for two drivers, each car has different levels of fuel, they must be in the correct order to make strategy successful. Hamilton simply did not allow this to happen, there followed a rather arrogant move by Alonso to hold up Hamilton. Every team has a Quali strategy, its not team orders.
Ordering Hamiltion in the actual race, to let Alonso overtake him would be another story.
I gave the example of the Austria 2002 race when Rubens was told to hand the race win the Michael just yards before the finish line.
You jump right in to defend Ferrari and said it doesn't cheapen the sport.
Man you really need to make your mind up, ice.
By the way the McLaren situation in Quali about letting Alonso pass to head the session, wasn't team orders. Its a Quali strategy, there is only one pit for two drivers, each car has different levels of fuel, they must be in the correct order to make strategy successful. Hamilton simply did not allow this to happen, there followed a rather arrogant move by Alonso to hold up Hamilton. Every team has a Quali strategy, its not team orders.
Ordering Hamiltion in the actual race, to let Alonso overtake him would be another story.
08-05-2007, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Member545' post='455369' date='Aug 5 2007, 03:19 AM
Strange that none of this info is on http://www.f1.com I wonder why. I do think Alonzo deserves to be punished.
08-05-2007, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC' post='455462' date='Aug 5 2007, 12:30 PM
Iceman I just had battle on another post with you about team orders, I was saying they are a disgrace to the sport.
I gave the example of the Austria 2002 race when Rubens was told to hand the race win the Michael just yards before the finish line.
You jump right in to defend Ferrari and said it doesn't cheapen the sport.
Man you really need to make your mind up, ice.
By the way the McLaren situation in Quali about letting Alonso pass to head the session, wasn't team orders. Its a Quali strategy, there is only one pit for two drivers, each car has different levels of fuel, they must be in the correct order to make strategy successful. Hamilton simply did not allow this to happen, there followed a rather arrogant move by Alonso to hold up Hamilton. Every team has a Quali strategy, its not team orders.
Ordering Hamiltion in the actual race, to let Alonso overtake him would be another story.
I gave the example of the Austria 2002 race when Rubens was told to hand the race win the Michael just yards before the finish line.
You jump right in to defend Ferrari and said it doesn't cheapen the sport.
Man you really need to make your mind up, ice.
By the way the McLaren situation in Quali about letting Alonso pass to head the session, wasn't team orders. Its a Quali strategy, there is only one pit for two drivers, each car has different levels of fuel, they must be in the correct order to make strategy successful. Hamilton simply did not allow this to happen, there followed a rather arrogant move by Alonso to hold up Hamilton. Every team has a Quali strategy, its not team orders.
Ordering Hamiltion in the actual race, to let Alonso overtake him would be another story.
08-05-2007, 01:46 AM
#24
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My Ride: MY RIDE is DA real .-) HAMANN 5 aka BLACK MAMBA born on 16/06/2005/delivered on 05/08/2005 as following:
530dA (steptronic), Black II (JET), leather Dakota auburn black, mapple trim, head-up display, dynamic drive, active steering, adaptive xenon headlights (auto levelling) with headlight washers, alarm, comfort seats with massage function, advanced A/C, big compartment armrest, aux-in, MP3, Logic 7, Radio PRO, CD in-dash+cd changer, power rear sunshades, rear airbags, park distance control, auto dimming folding mirrors, smoking package, shiny shadow line (individual), fold down rear seats, ski bag, sport suspension, run flats on �116-style� rims (Good Year NCT5+), cup holders, debadged, fire extinguishers, additional permanent power outlet, BMW coat hanger, trunk release button (installed by Hobi), GPS tracking device and a big thx 2 Iceman.
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nice but except Iceman, you talk BS mates... sorry read www.fia.com etc. 
engineer was busy with the countuing down...haha FIA stayed upto 12 o'clock nite and decided that McL and Alonso must be penalised, that is due to unnecessary delaying of his mate-driver. End of story...
let's see what the guys do back home...
engineer was busy with the countuing down...haha FIA stayed upto 12 o'clock nite and decided that McL and Alonso must be penalised, that is due to unnecessary delaying of his mate-driver. End of story...let's see what the guys do back home...
08-05-2007, 01:53 AM
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Hmm okay, Alonso got what he deserved but bottom question then: Does Hamilton appear sporty? What was his sporty behavior or fair play?
08-05-2007, 02:19 AM
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What did he do wrong?
Alonso is attacking him on the track, off the track and in interviews. And Hamilton doesn't react to this. That's classy!
Hamilton knows that he is not doing anything wrong. He is only following the rules. Even when he declined the team order yesterday!!
CLASSY!
Alonso is a JERK! One of the most unfair drivers out there! He perfectly fits the McL MB team. Hamilton doesn't fit, that's why they have the problems now, everyone can see what's going on in their team!
08-05-2007, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Iceman' post='455471' date='Aug 5 2007, 01:19 PM
I knew you would jump in here.
When Ferrari gave out the order to Rubens, it was not illegal. Therefore it didn't cheapen the sport! It was legal at that time and they took advantage.
Now it IS ILLEGAL, therefore iot does cheapen the sport now!
McL MB got penalized for the team order that Hamilton didn't follow. If he would have followed the order he would have been penalized too.
That's not a strategy we're talking about here, it is a team order!
It's clearly written down in FIA's rules!
OTH, speaking about classy teams, and you were saying that McL MB is more classy... Ask ANY insider and you will hear that they are NOT anywhere near to beeing classy.
When you read this article you get a very small idea of what's going on behind scenes with McL MB. Briatore is an idiot, but what he says here is damn right.
McL MB should have been disqualified this season.
Hamilton?
What did he do wrong?
Alonso is attacking him on the track, off the track and in interviews. And Hamilton doesn't react to this. That's classy!
Hamilton knows that he is not doing anything wrong. He is only following the rules. Even when he declined the team order yesterday!!
CLASSY!
Alonso is a JERK! One of the most unfair drivers out there! He perfectly fits the McL MB team. Hamilton doesn't fit, that's why they have the problems now, everyone can see what's going on in their team!
When Ferrari gave out the order to Rubens, it was not illegal. Therefore it didn't cheapen the sport! It was legal at that time and they took advantage.
Now it IS ILLEGAL, therefore iot does cheapen the sport now!
McL MB got penalized for the team order that Hamilton didn't follow. If he would have followed the order he would have been penalized too.
That's not a strategy we're talking about here, it is a team order!
It's clearly written down in FIA's rules!
OTH, speaking about classy teams, and you were saying that McL MB is more classy... Ask ANY insider and you will hear that they are NOT anywhere near to beeing classy.
When you read this article you get a very small idea of what's going on behind scenes with McL MB. Briatore is an idiot, but what he says here is damn right.
McL MB should have been disqualified this season.
Hamilton?
What did he do wrong?
Alonso is attacking him on the track, off the track and in interviews. And Hamilton doesn't react to this. That's classy!
Hamilton knows that he is not doing anything wrong. He is only following the rules. Even when he declined the team order yesterday!!
CLASSY!
Alonso is a JERK! One of the most unfair drivers out there! He perfectly fits the McL MB team. Hamilton doesn't fit, that's why they have the problems now, everyone can see what's going on in their team!
On the other hand, looking back at your message about the illegal stuff, and what's legal and what's not, do you really think that what's all legal in this world, including F1, can't damage anything, respectively F1? Where's the morality of those actions? Do you think the supporters and fans that watched that race, when they saw MS being allowed to win the race, by ordering Rubens to let him go. said OH WELL...IT'S LEGAL so nothing to worry about. Well, as i remember, there was a big scandal over the issue, and alot of :thumbsdown:
Alas i'd like to read the fia regulations regarding team orders and qualify strategies. I'm not so sure about what you say.
"McL MB got penalized for the team order that Hamilton didn't follow. If he would have followed the order he would have been penalized too.
That's not a strategy we're talking about here, it is a team order!" Interesting but i'd like to study this before concluding.
So McL MB did not get penalized for the 20 second hold-up, did not get penalized for defending Alonso but they got penalized for a team order that DID not take place. Hmmm
Anyway, let's watch the race....
08-05-2007, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' post='455477' date='Aug 5 2007, 01:38 PM
...
Do you think the supporters and fans that watched that race, when they saw MS being allowed to win the race, by ordering Rubens to let him go. said OH WELL...IT'S LEGAL so nothing to worry about. Well, as i remember, there was a big scandal over the issue, and alot of :thumbsdown:
Alas i'd like to read the fia regulations regarding team orders and qualify strategies. I'm not so sure about what you say.
"McL MB got penalized for the team order that Hamilton didn't follow. If he would have followed the order he would have been penalized too.
That's not a strategy we're talking about here, it is a team order!" Interesting but i'd like to study this before concluding.
So McL MB did not get penalized for the 20 second hold-up, did not get penalized for defending Alonso but they got penalized for a team order that DID not take place. Hmmm
...
Do you think the supporters and fans that watched that race, when they saw MS being allowed to win the race, by ordering Rubens to let him go. said OH WELL...IT'S LEGAL so nothing to worry about. Well, as i remember, there was a big scandal over the issue, and alot of :thumbsdown:
Alas i'd like to read the fia regulations regarding team orders and qualify strategies. I'm not so sure about what you say.
"McL MB got penalized for the team order that Hamilton didn't follow. If he would have followed the order he would have been penalized too.
That's not a strategy we're talking about here, it is a team order!" Interesting but i'd like to study this before concluding.
So McL MB did not get penalized for the 20 second hold-up, did not get penalized for defending Alonso but they got penalized for a team order that DID not take place. Hmmm
...
I remember exactly what I was thinking at the time it happened... I wasn't happy about it, but I knew the rules... and I knew on the spot, the rules will be changed.
The regulations are published...
The team order DID take place, but wasn't followed. The problem is, everything is on tape.
Alonso got penalized for the additional 10 seconds, that were kind of a payback to Hamilton and unsportsmanlike. Those 10 seconds cost him another flying lap, and Alonso got the penalty.
The team got penalized for the team order that Hamilton didn't followed, but as it is in rules and laws, even the "try" is illegal. So they got the penalty for it. They don't agree of course, so they will fight it. But that's another story and I don't think they will win it. They tried to cheat, and got caught.
BTW: Congrats to Hamilton.
08-05-2007, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Iceman' post='455530' date='Aug 5 2007, 08:06 PM
I remember exactly what I was thinking at the time it happened... I wasn't happy about it, but I knew the rules... and I knew on the spot, the rules will be changed.
The regulations are published...
The team order DID take place, but wasn't followed. The problem is, everything is on tape.
Alonso got penalized for the additional 10 seconds, that were kind of a payback to Hamilton and unsportsmanlike. Those 10 seconds cost him another flying lap, and Alonso got the penalty.
The team got penalized for the team order that Hamilton didn't followed, but as it is in rules and laws, even the "try" is illegal. So they got the penalty for it. They don't agree of course, so they will fight it. But that's another story and I don't think they will win it. They tried to cheat, and got caught.
BTW: Congrats to Hamilton.
Anyway here's what's more interesting to me:
Nick Heidfeld: "This was a superb race for me. I was on the podium for the second time this year, and podiums were on our 'to do' list for this season. I had a bad start on the dirty side of the track and lost a place to Kimi R?ikk?nen, but anyway both Lewis Hamilton and he have clearly been faster today, so a better start would not have changed much. I had some difficulties with the second and third sets of tyres and it was not easy to race against a 'ghost'. Of course I knew I was racing Fernando Alonso but, due to the different strategies, he wasn't visible to me. We decided early this weekend to go for a three stop strategy because the softer tyres caused trouble. I only used them in the last stint when my car was relatively light and the track had a lot of rubber. Fernando was faster than me almost everywhere and put me under pressure, but he didn't have a proper chance to overtake as this is very difficult here."
Great result for BMW today! Let's hope alot more come.
