52% Tax
07-20-2009, 09:49 AM
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I agree with everyone's thoughts on this thread...my hope is that all this finger pointing will stop, and that we start looking towards the future and doing it the RIGHT way. My ideologies are more in line with that of Ron Paul's. I agree with his proposals to move our country back onto the gold standard (and prevent the Fed from being able to print more money and devaluing the dollar against foreign currencies), rid ourselves of the IRS and go on a flat tax method...
Over the generations, I feel that our country has forgotten the genesis of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution. Our Founding Fathers said, "...life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...". Government is here to ensure (and enable) that everyone has these inalienable rights; not to provide for them...it is incumbent upon all of us to find (or pursue) our happiness; not have government give it to us on a silver platter, which I feel this healthcare bill is trying to do. That being said, v_therussian put it best, rather than arguing about it, do something about it. As Chris Rock said, "...don't go by party lines...don't be a Republican or Democrat...be an American...get educated on the issues, and vote according to what is right for you (and yours)..." In that regard, IMHO, big government is bad, and smaller government is best....capitalism in its truest form...
I'm stepping off of my soapbox now....
Over the generations, I feel that our country has forgotten the genesis of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution. Our Founding Fathers said, "...life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...". Government is here to ensure (and enable) that everyone has these inalienable rights; not to provide for them...it is incumbent upon all of us to find (or pursue) our happiness; not have government give it to us on a silver platter, which I feel this healthcare bill is trying to do. That being said, v_therussian put it best, rather than arguing about it, do something about it. As Chris Rock said, "...don't go by party lines...don't be a Republican or Democrat...be an American...get educated on the issues, and vote according to what is right for you (and yours)..." In that regard, IMHO, big government is bad, and smaller government is best....capitalism in its truest form...
I'm stepping off of my soapbox now....
07-20-2009, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by theonlychoman' post='947583' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:49 AM
I agree with everyone's thoughts on this thread...my hope is that all this finger pointing will stop, and that we start looking towards the future and doing it the RIGHT way. My ideologies are more in line with that of Ron Paul's. I agree with his proposals to move our country back onto the gold standard (and prevent the Fed from being able to print more money and devaluing the dollar against foreign currencies), rid ourselves of the IRS and go on a flat tax method...
Over the generations, I feel that our country has forgotten the genesis of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution. Our Founding Fathers said, "...life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...". Government is here to ensure (and enable) that everyone has these inalienable rights; not to provide for them...it is incumbent upon all of us to find (or pursue) our happiness; not have government give it to us on a silver platter, which I feel this healthcare bill is trying to do. That being said, v_therussian put it best, rather than arguing about it, do something about it. As Chris Rock said, "...don't go by party lines...don't be a Republican or Democrat...be an American...get educated on the issues, and vote according to what is right for you (and yours)..." In that regard, IMHO, big government is bad, and smaller government is best....capitalism in its truest form...
I'm stepping off of my soapbox now....
Over the generations, I feel that our country has forgotten the genesis of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution. Our Founding Fathers said, "...life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...". Government is here to ensure (and enable) that everyone has these inalienable rights; not to provide for them...it is incumbent upon all of us to find (or pursue) our happiness; not have government give it to us on a silver platter, which I feel this healthcare bill is trying to do. That being said, v_therussian put it best, rather than arguing about it, do something about it. As Chris Rock said, "...don't go by party lines...don't be a Republican or Democrat...be an American...get educated on the issues, and vote according to what is right for you (and yours)..." In that regard, IMHO, big government is bad, and smaller government is best....capitalism in its truest form...
I'm stepping off of my soapbox now....
I can agree with most of what you say, however, when it comes to health care and education we are lagging far behind other industrialized countries. This is ridiculous, we are the world's wealthiest country and we are more concerned with our own pursuits than the benefit of all. Have you talked to kids today? They are in general morons, when I was 10-13 I could name all 50 states and most state capitals, I could do geometry, algebra, and was learning physics. Now? Kids can't even identify their OWN state capital and some can't even find their own state on a map. This is America? It's pathetic.
In regards to healthcare, F*%k insurance companies, F*%k doctors, F*%K pharmaceutical companies. Anyone else notice we haven't cured ANYTHING since Polio? They much rather develop drugs to help you "live" with your condition than cure you, because cures = fewer drugs sold and fewer doctor visits. It is pure greed that creates opposition to nationalized healthcare. How many people have died because their insurance company refused to cover procedures that could've saved their life? How many more have to die? Am I the only one who saw Sicko?
Bottom line: If you make $10 Mil a year and you have to pay 52% I would be shocked, the well off have SOOOO many tax breaks and loopholes it's ridiculous. The average millionaire pays less than 10% in taxes, so if their tax rates go up a little bit BOO-HOO I feel for you. My current tax rate is about 45% and I don't make anywhere near a million, so it's disgusting that millionaires get away with paying so much less than the rest of us. 52% for the wealthiest, good, if you're making $10 million a year and you have to pay (by some miracle) 52% - you're not starving, but those that make $50k a year and pay more than 30% are sometimes starving, am I the only one that sees the injustice there? While I make a good living I pay my fair share and DON'T BITCH!!!
07-20-2009, 10:05 AM
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+1 DRANGED- "What is going on here is class warfare, engineered and instigated by the left to achieve their agenda of redistribution of wealth, which will be the downfall of our great country. "
California usually sets the trends for the rest for the country. With its state run Universal Health care law the state finds itself 26 BILLION DOLLARS in debt! The left-wing liberals in California have for too long spent recklessly and irresponsibly, to prosecute its socialist agenda, more than it took in. Now the Democrats in Congress, led by Trend-setter-Role Model California's Pelosi, have their sights set on the remaining 49 states.
"A government big enough to supply you with everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have...." Thomas Jefferson
California usually sets the trends for the rest for the country. With its state run Universal Health care law the state finds itself 26 BILLION DOLLARS in debt! The left-wing liberals in California have for too long spent recklessly and irresponsibly, to prosecute its socialist agenda, more than it took in. Now the Democrats in Congress, led by Trend-setter-Role Model California's Pelosi, have their sights set on the remaining 49 states.
"A government big enough to supply you with everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have...." Thomas Jefferson
Also plus 1 with whoever said stop pointing fingers. Bush is gone and will never return. Move forward and focus on all of Obama's false promises that tricked you into voting for him.
07-20-2009, 10:06 AM
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I'd argue that in proposing the bill, and in proposing the measures that the bill is seeking to fund, the government is indeed trying to so something about it.
I don't believe that maintaining the status quo in respect to healthcare is in the best interests of this country and its people.
As a supporter of the broad intent of the bill (if not necessarily the detail for reasons I articulated earlier), and one of those who will face a tax increase as a result of the bill as it is currently drafted, I do feel that I am indeed contributing to something that I consider to be vitally important and I am also more than happy to see my increased tax dollars put to what I consider to be a good use and be of benefit to those who most need our collective help.
I don't believe that maintaining the status quo in respect to healthcare is in the best interests of this country and its people.
As a supporter of the broad intent of the bill (if not necessarily the detail for reasons I articulated earlier), and one of those who will face a tax increase as a result of the bill as it is currently drafted, I do feel that I am indeed contributing to something that I consider to be vitally important and I am also more than happy to see my increased tax dollars put to what I consider to be a good use and be of benefit to those who most need our collective help.
07-20-2009, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='947602' date='Jul 20 2009, 11:06 AM
I'd argue that in proposing the bill, and in proposing the measures that the bill is seeking to fund, the government is indeed trying to so something about it.
I don't believe that maintaining the status quo in respect to healthcare is in the best interests of this country and its people.
As a supporter of the broad intent of the bill (if not necessarily the detail for reasons I articulated earlier), and one of those who will face a tax increase as a result of the bill as it is currently drafted, I do feel that I am indeed contributing to something that I consider to be vitally important and I am also more than happy to see my increased tax dollars put to what I consider to be a good use and be of benefit to those who most need our collective help.
I don't believe that maintaining the status quo in respect to healthcare is in the best interests of this country and its people.
As a supporter of the broad intent of the bill (if not necessarily the detail for reasons I articulated earlier), and one of those who will face a tax increase as a result of the bill as it is currently drafted, I do feel that I am indeed contributing to something that I consider to be vitally important and I am also more than happy to see my increased tax dollars put to what I consider to be a good use and be of benefit to those who most need our collective help.
HERE WE GO AGAIN, I completely agree with Swajames here. This is getting eerie
07-20-2009, 10:18 AM
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TEA PARTY! lol what about the fema camps?? fuck taxes! empty prisons waiting for citizens to get uppity! thats scary
07-20-2009, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by pjinca' post='947593' date='Jul 20 2009, 11:00 AM
I can agree with most of what you say, however, when it comes to health care and education we are lagging far behind other industrialized countries. This is ridiculous, we are the world's wealthiest country and we are more concerned with our own pursuits than the benefit of all. Have you talked to kids today? They are in general morons, when I was 10-13 I could name all 50 states and most state capitals, I could do geometry, algebra, and was learning physics. Now? Kids can't even identify their OWN state capital and some can't even find their own state on a map. This is America? It's pathetic.
In regards to healthcare, F*%k insurance companies, F*%k doctors, F*%K pharmaceutical companies. Anyone else notice we haven't cured ANYTHING since Polio? They much rather develop drugs to help you "live" with your condition than cure you, because cures = fewer drugs sold and fewer doctor visits. It is pure greed that creates opposition to nationalized healthcare. How many people have died because their insurance company refused to cover procedures that could've saved their life? How many more have to die? Am I the only one who saw Sicko?
Bottom line: If you make $10 Mil a year and you have to pay 52% I would be shocked, the well off have SOOOO many tax breaks and loopholes it's ridiculous. The average millionaire pays less than 10% in taxes, so if their tax rates go up a little bit BOO-HOO I feel for you. My current tax rate is about 45% and I don't make anywhere near a million, so it's disgusting that millionaires get away with paying so much less than the rest of us. 52% for the wealthiest, good, if you're making $10 million a year and you have to pay (by some miracle) 52% - you're not starving, but those that make $50k a year and pay more than 30% are sometimes starving, am I the only one that sees the injustice there? While I make a good living I pay my fair share and DON'T BITCH!!!
In regards to healthcare, F*%k insurance companies, F*%k doctors, F*%K pharmaceutical companies. Anyone else notice we haven't cured ANYTHING since Polio? They much rather develop drugs to help you "live" with your condition than cure you, because cures = fewer drugs sold and fewer doctor visits. It is pure greed that creates opposition to nationalized healthcare. How many people have died because their insurance company refused to cover procedures that could've saved their life? How many more have to die? Am I the only one who saw Sicko?
Bottom line: If you make $10 Mil a year and you have to pay 52% I would be shocked, the well off have SOOOO many tax breaks and loopholes it's ridiculous. The average millionaire pays less than 10% in taxes, so if their tax rates go up a little bit BOO-HOO I feel for you. My current tax rate is about 45% and I don't make anywhere near a million, so it's disgusting that millionaires get away with paying so much less than the rest of us. 52% for the wealthiest, good, if you're making $10 million a year and you have to pay (by some miracle) 52% - you're not starving, but those that make $50k a year and pay more than 30% are sometimes starving, am I the only one that sees the injustice there? While I make a good living I pay my fair share and DON'T BITCH!!!
I agree with your comments on the pharmaceutical companies, etc...
However, with education, I have to disagree with you in that the educating of one's child is not the burden of the State...it goes back to the Home. I agree with your point on the level of knowledge that today's children have, and like you, knew the capitals of the 50-states, etc at a young age. My views (and I want to stress that these are MY VIEWS), are that I do not want to be responsible for educating your child (let alone you be responsible for educating mine)...that is the genesis of the failure here in the California education system. Case-in-point, as a result of me and my wife's philosophy that education is important, we have done home schooling our 4-year old son, and as a result, he can read, write, count to 1,000 and knows the 50-states (and capitals) (proud father beating his chest). In this regard, my wife and I plan to send our son to the best private schools here in the Greater LA area because of our idealogies. It will be a financial burden on our family to do this, but it will be OUR family's financial burden; not the State's (or that of anyone else). Bottom line: everything starts in the Home...
07-20-2009, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by theonlychoman' post='947643' date='Jul 20 2009, 11:35 AM
I agree with your comments on the pharmaceutical companies, etc...
However, with education, I have to disagree with you in that the educating of one's child is not the burden of the State...it goes back to the Home. I agree with your point on the level of knowledge that today's children have, and like you, knew the capitals of the 50-states, etc at a young age. My views (and I want to stress that these are MY VIEWS), are that I do not want to be responsible for educating your child (let alone you be responsible for educating mine)...that is the genesis of the failure here in the California education system. Case-in-point, as a result of me and my wife's philosophy that education is important, we have done home schooling our 4-year old son, and as a result, he can read, write, count to 1,000 and knows the 50-states (and capitals) (proud father beating his chest). In this regard, my wife and I plan to send our son to the best private schools here in the Greater LA area because of our idealogies. It will be a financial burden on our family to do this, but it will be OUR family's financial burden; not the State's (or that of anyone else). Bottom line: everything starts in the Home...
However, with education, I have to disagree with you in that the educating of one's child is not the burden of the State...it goes back to the Home. I agree with your point on the level of knowledge that today's children have, and like you, knew the capitals of the 50-states, etc at a young age. My views (and I want to stress that these are MY VIEWS), are that I do not want to be responsible for educating your child (let alone you be responsible for educating mine)...that is the genesis of the failure here in the California education system. Case-in-point, as a result of me and my wife's philosophy that education is important, we have done home schooling our 4-year old son, and as a result, he can read, write, count to 1,000 and knows the 50-states (and capitals) (proud father beating his chest). In this regard, my wife and I plan to send our son to the best private schools here in the Greater LA area because of our idealogies. It will be a financial burden on our family to do this, but it will be OUR family's financial burden; not the State's (or that of anyone else). Bottom line: everything starts in the Home...
+1000, we actually agree with respect to educating our own kids. I was privately educated and my sons will be too (I can't, as what I would like to be a good dad, put them in public school regardless of costs). My wife also educates our sons (her degree is in Early Child development, she was going to be a teacher but office manager pays more
). However, I cannot agree that education is not the duty of the state, there are many people that for whatever reason cannot afford a decent education for their children and I, for one, feel that they deserve at least a chance at success. It is the responibility of the society as a whole to give each person a chance at living a dream, that is what makes America so great, with knowledge and hard work ANYONE can succeed and be whatever they want to be (please refer to the quote in my sig).
07-20-2009, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by pjinca' post='947672' date='Jul 20 2009, 11:58 AM
+1000, we actually agree with respect to educating our own kids. I was privately educated and my sons will be too (I can't, as what I would like to be a good dad, put them in public school regardless of costs). My wife also educates our sons (her degree is in Early Child development, she was going to be a teacher but office manager pays more ). However, I cannot agree that education is not the duty of the state, there are many people that for whatever reason cannot afford a decent education for their children and I, for one, feel that they deserve at least a chance at success. It is the responibility of the society as a whole to give each person a chance at living a dream, that is what makes America so great, with knowledge and hard work ANYONE can succeed and be whatever they want to be (please refer to the quote in my sig).
). However, I cannot agree that education is not the duty of the state, there are many people that for whatever reason cannot afford a decent education for their children and I, for one, feel that they deserve at least a chance at success. It is the responibility of the society as a whole to give each person a chance at living a dream, that is what makes America so great, with knowledge and hard work ANYONE can succeed and be whatever they want to be (please refer to the quote in my sig).
I'm also glad that we can agree to disagree...that's what's so great about this country!
Apologies to OP if this is turning into a thread jack...