Lap Times: F10 Vs. E60
07-28-2010, 08:29 PM
#11
Senior Members
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 639
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2011 BMW 550i; Dark Graphite Metalliic/Oyster, 4.4 TT V8, 8-sp AT, Sports Package, Dynamic Handling, Premium Package 2, Cold Weather Package, HUD
I agree. A shame that the f10's set up (at least, by these accounts) show a step backwards in dynamic capability. No question it's an easy going "boulevardier", as I experienced during my own test drive as well as based on the accounts given on the forum, however.
I think I'll go out on a limb and say that once the M5 comes out, it will do away with the electronic doodads that artificially enhance the driving experience of the f10 (ex., the electric steering, active dampers, etc.). At least, that's what I hope!
I think I'll go out on a limb and say that once the M5 comes out, it will do away with the electronic doodads that artificially enhance the driving experience of the f10 (ex., the electric steering, active dampers, etc.). At least, that's what I hope!
Well, once you've driven a Sports Package-equipped F10 550i w/Dynamic Handling, you'll soon realize it's no "easy going boulevardier." To me, the Sports Package w/Dynamic Handling really transforms the car and takes it to another level. I've driven about 3K miles so far in my F10 550i, and I can tell you that it easily crushes my last Sports Packaged-equipped 545i in every performance category....acceleration, handling, grip, braking. In Normal and Comfort modes, the car is as serene and smooth as any high-end luxury car, but once you select the Sports modes, the car instantly turns into a serious sports sedan and the difference is like night-and-day. The F10 550i flat out hauls in the Sports mode and takes on corners like it's on rails. . Just this morning, I had a little fun with a C63 AMG, and I had no trouble keeping up with that little rocket.
07-28-2010, 11:28 PM
#12
Members
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, once you've driven a Sports Package-equipped F10 550i w/Dynamic Handling, you'll soon realize it's no "easy going boulevardier." To me, the Sports Package w/Dynamic Handling really transforms the car and takes it to another level. I've driven about 3K miles so far in my F10 550i, and I can tell you that it easily crushes my last Sports Packaged-equipped 545i in every performance category....acceleration, handling, grip, braking. In Normal and Comfort modes, the car is as serene and smooth as any high-end luxury car, but once you select the Sports modes, the car instantly turns into a serious sports sedan and the difference is like night-and-day. The F10 550i flat out hauls in the Sports mode and takes on corners like it's on rails. . Just this morning, I had a little fun with a C63 AMG, and I had no trouble keeping up with that little rocket.
07-29-2010, 09:19 AM
#13
Members
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: singapore
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was checking fastestlaps.com and came up with the only two tracks that had both the F10 and E60:
1. Autozeitung Test Track.
2. Hockenheim Short.
In the first track their is the F10 530d vs. the E60 530i. Both have the same 0-100 kph of 6.3 seconds. Both also have very close 0-160 kph figures as shown on fastestlaps.com (14.0 s vs 13.9 s). The E60 530i has scored the 138th position with 1:46.2 while the F10 530d has been timed at 181st position with 1:48.1 s.
1. Autozeitung Test Track.
2. Hockenheim Short.
In the first track their is the F10 530d vs. the E60 530i. Both have the same 0-100 kph of 6.3 seconds. Both also have very close 0-160 kph figures as shown on fastestlaps.com (14.0 s vs 13.9 s). The E60 530i has scored the 138th position with 1:46.2 while the F10 530d has been timed at 181st position with 1:48.1 s.
Looking at the bottom of the screen of each of the link, does it mean that any member of the public can post the lap time done by him/her ie the times posted are by different drivers and this is a record over a period of years? Likewise for your second track?
07-29-2010, 09:26 AM
#14
Members
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: singapore
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also looking at the Hockenheim tab, we see that the F10 535i cornering forces were in the range of 0.95 to 1.10 g across the 7 track corners, while the E60 535d achieved cornering forces in the range of 1.00 g to 1.10 g. The distribution of g forces across corners (from Querspange to Nordkurve)are as follows:
F10 535i: 0.95, 1.00, 0.95, 1.10, 1.00, 1.00, 1.05.
E60 535d: 1.05, 1.00, 1.05, 1.10, 1.05, 1.00, 1.05.
So the cornering stability is close but in favor of the E60 especially in the first and third corners (which coincedentally are the fast sweepers). The F10 performs almost the same as the E60 in the rest of tight corners.
F10 535i: 0.95, 1.00, 0.95, 1.10, 1.00, 1.00, 1.05.
E60 535d: 1.05, 1.00, 1.05, 1.10, 1.05, 1.00, 1.05.
So the cornering stability is close but in favor of the E60 especially in the first and third corners (which coincedentally are the fast sweepers). The F10 performs almost the same as the E60 in the rest of tight corners.
Also, why should one compare the 0-100 kph times and 0-160 kph times of 2 cars with same acceleration times and then conclude that the cars can be compared? The 2 tracks are not straight roads, but with turns and surely how the car accelerates at different speeds are relevant.
07-29-2010, 09:27 AM
#15
Members
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: singapore
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also looking at the Hockenheim tab, we see that the F10 535i cornering forces were in the range of 0.95 to 1.10 g across the 7 track corners, while the E60 535d achieved cornering forces in the range of 1.00 g to 1.10 g. The distribution of g forces across corners (from Querspange to Nordkurve)are as follows:
F10 535i: 0.95, 1.00, 0.95, 1.10, 1.00, 1.00, 1.05.
E60 535d: 1.05, 1.00, 1.05, 1.10, 1.05, 1.00, 1.05.
So the cornering stability is close but in favor of the E60 especially in the first and third corners (which coincedentally are the fast sweepers). The F10 performs almost the same as the E60 in the rest of tight corners.
F10 535i: 0.95, 1.00, 0.95, 1.10, 1.00, 1.00, 1.05.
E60 535d: 1.05, 1.00, 1.05, 1.10, 1.05, 1.00, 1.05.
So the cornering stability is close but in favor of the E60 especially in the first and third corners (which coincedentally are the fast sweepers). The F10 performs almost the same as the E60 in the rest of tight corners.
Also, why should one compare the 0-100 kph times and 0-160 kph times of 2 cars with same acceleration times and then conclude that the cars can be compared? The 2 tracks are not straight roads, but with turns and surely how the cars accelerate at different speeds are relevant.
07-29-2010, 09:37 AM
#16
Senior Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 523iA, 2006, Silver Grey, Black Leatherette Interior, Fine-Wood Trim Poplar Grain Brown High-Gloss, 6 Speed Automatic Transmission with Steptronic, Automatic Air Conditioning with Extended Content, Interior and Exterior Mirrors with Automatic Anti-Dazzle Function (Incl. Folding Function for Exterior Mirror), Electric Front Seats with Memory for Driver, Multi-Function Steering Wheel with Cruise Control, Adjustable Steering Column, BMW Radio with 8 Speakers and CD Drive, Park Distance Control, Universal Bluetooth Cell Phone, Electric Rear Sunblind
Why does higher g force mean higher cornering stability? Does it not depend on how the particular driver took the corner and how stable the car was when the corner was taken by that particular driver?
Also, why should one compare the 0-100 kph times and 0-160 kph times of 2 cars with same acceleration times and then conclude that the cars can be compared? The 2 tracks are not straight roads, but with turns and surely how the cars accelerate at different speeds are relevant.
Also, why should one compare the 0-100 kph times and 0-160 kph times of 2 cars with same acceleration times and then conclude that the cars can be compared? The 2 tracks are not straight roads, but with turns and surely how the cars accelerate at different speeds are relevant.
G force = v^2 / r / 9.81, where r is the radius of the curve in meters, 9.81 is acceleration due to gravity and v is the tangential speed (car speed in m/s) in the corner. Since r is constant for the same curve then this implies that v is higher with higher g force.
This is apparent in the Auto Sport tests in the links above. Just press on the Hockenheim tab and you will see that in 5 out of 7 corners the cornering speeds of the E60 are higher than that of the F10.
07-30-2010, 01:57 AM
#17
Members
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: singapore
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was checking fastestlaps.com and came up with the only two tracks that had both the F10 and E60:
1. Autozeitung Test Track.
2. Hockenheim Short.
In the first track their is the F10 530d vs. the E60 530i. Both have the same 0-100 kph of 6.3 seconds. Both also have very close 0-160 kph figures as shown on fastestlaps.com (14.0 s vs 13.9 s). The E60 530i has scored the 138th position with 1:46.2 while the F10 530d has been timed at 181st position with 1:48.1 s.
The second track has the F10 535i vs. the E60 535d. Both have the same lap time of 1:19.6 and both are automatic gearboxes. Considering the better 0-100 kph of the F10 535i of 6.1 s to the 6.3 s of the E60 535d and with both having the same 0-160 kph at 14.2 s, and very close 0-180 kph (18.6 to 18.4), we should expect the F10 to have better lap time.
1. Autozeitung Test Track.
2. Hockenheim Short.
In the first track their is the F10 530d vs. the E60 530i. Both have the same 0-100 kph of 6.3 seconds. Both also have very close 0-160 kph figures as shown on fastestlaps.com (14.0 s vs 13.9 s). The E60 530i has scored the 138th position with 1:46.2 while the F10 530d has been timed at 181st position with 1:48.1 s.
The second track has the F10 535i vs. the E60 535d. Both have the same lap time of 1:19.6 and both are automatic gearboxes. Considering the better 0-100 kph of the F10 535i of 6.1 s to the 6.3 s of the E60 535d and with both having the same 0-160 kph at 14.2 s, and very close 0-180 kph (18.6 to 18.4), we should expect the F10 to have better lap time.
For your first link above, see http://www.fastestlaps.com/addcar.html found at the bottom of your link
For your second link above, see http://www.fastestlaps.com/track7.html found at the bottom of your link
07-30-2010, 02:01 AM
#18
Members
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: singapore
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am comparing the two cars on the same track corners. The car that achieves higher g forces have better cornering stabiliy. G force = v^2 / r / 9.81, where r is the radius of the curve in meters, 9.81 is acceleration due to gravity and v is the tangential speed (car speed in m/s) in the corner. Since r is constant for the same curve then this implies that v is higher with higher g force. This is apparent in the Auto Sport tests in the links above. Just press on the Hockenheim tab and you will see that in 5 out of 7 corners the cornering speeds of the E60 are higher than that of the F10.
07-30-2010, 04:54 AM
#19
Senior Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 523iA, 2006, Silver Grey, Black Leatherette Interior, Fine-Wood Trim Poplar Grain Brown High-Gloss, 6 Speed Automatic Transmission with Steptronic, Automatic Air Conditioning with Extended Content, Interior and Exterior Mirrors with Automatic Anti-Dazzle Function (Incl. Folding Function for Exterior Mirror), Electric Front Seats with Memory for Driver, Multi-Function Steering Wheel with Cruise Control, Adjustable Steering Column, BMW Radio with 8 Speakers and CD Drive, Park Distance Control, Universal Bluetooth Cell Phone, Electric Rear Sunblind
Where was the following information obtained : "The E60 530i has scored the 138th position with 1:46.2 while the F10 530d has been timed at 181st position with 1:48.1 s."? Aren't they from the links mentioned above and which was posted by different drivers and the list compiled over years?
For your first link above, see http://www.fastestlaps.com/addcar.html found at the bottom of your link
For your second link above, see http://www.fastestlaps.com/track7.html found at the bottom of your link
For your first link above, see http://www.fastestlaps.com/addcar.html found at the bottom of your link
For your second link above, see http://www.fastestlaps.com/track7.html found at the bottom of your link
Therefore the positions are roughly correct. If there will be a variation, it would by few postions due to new track times not included in the fastest laps site.
07-30-2010, 05:26 AM
#20
Senior Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 523iA, 2006, Silver Grey, Black Leatherette Interior, Fine-Wood Trim Poplar Grain Brown High-Gloss, 6 Speed Automatic Transmission with Steptronic, Automatic Air Conditioning with Extended Content, Interior and Exterior Mirrors with Automatic Anti-Dazzle Function (Incl. Folding Function for Exterior Mirror), Electric Front Seats with Memory for Driver, Multi-Function Steering Wheel with Cruise Control, Adjustable Steering Column, BMW Radio with 8 Speakers and CD Drive, Park Distance Control, Universal Bluetooth Cell Phone, Electric Rear Sunblind
Precisely. So it depends on how fast that particular driver drove the car, ie velocity. G force is the G force of the car in question when driven by a driver. Different drivers can drive differently. You are assuming that the car is stabler just because it has a higher G force. A car that is almost overturning may have a higher G force than another car that is not driven to its limit by another driver.
. I won't comment.Anja Wassertheurer is the editor of both articles. Please check the bottom of both articles.
The 535d test was done in April 2010 and the 535i test was done in June 2010. I can not confirm from the articles whether the exact same driver has driven both cars. But due to the short time difference between the two tests (2 months), it could very well be the same driver.
These lap times are taken after extensive testing, it is not a one lap thing.
In general, claiming that a lap time is irrelevant just because conditions are different, would just eleminate the validity of all the lap times in the world including the Nurburgring and all magazines or tv shows watched.
BMW 535d
BMW 535i
