bm323

Now only do you (who are technically superior as you call yourself) say you are comparing the 750i and the 535i. You are comparing the 750i (not the 750iL) with integral active steering with the 535i without, (and both not back to back or by the same driver).

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/7-seri...and-video.html

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...automatic.html

v_therussian

I wouldn't even sit in one without the adaptive drive and ARS - no worries

You maybe?



It is. Unfortunately, it is. Apparently...

Shebs

You have a very good point here.

Gents,

Let me rephrase my earlier statement:

As per Edmunds Inside line, the 750i with Integral Active Steering and 4599 lbs of weight (on a day when the temperature was 69.12 F and the wind was 9.6 mph heading west) achieved a skidpad figure of 0.84 and a slalom speed of 66 mph while the 535i without Integral Active steering and with 4080 lbs of weight, i.e. 519 pounds less than the 750i (on a day when the temperature 81.3 F and the wind speed was 2.0 mph at crosswinds) achieved the same skidpad figure of 0.84 and an inferior slalom time of 64.9 mph and both cars were riding on Goodyear Excellence tires and there is no confirmation that both cars were driven by the same driver.

No wonder the 7 series and the 5 series are built on the same chassis.

v_therussian

In all fairness, tires affect the slalom and g-force numbers tremendously. And slalom and emergency lane-change numbers are also subject in that even the same driver can have "on" and "off" days - if there are several drivers, there's likely to be as many varying g and slalom numbers as there are drivers.

bm323

Brilliant?

How about dealing with post #4 http://forums.5serie...long-term-test/

For the 328i, quote" What really set our 328i tester apart was its optional sport package, which provided a magical mixture of handling and compliance. We were treated to the best of both worlds, with a ride that was never harsh, and cornering capabilities that were downright exhilarating. You'd never guess that our 328i had the sport package from its supple composure over bumps and ruts, yet it carves through the canyons at a pace that would put some purpose-built sports cars to shame. Few vehicles at any price can match the all-around excellence of this sport-tuned chassis.... It's on twisty two-lane roads that the sport-packaged 328i really comes into its own. The car is simply a peerless handler among compact sport sedans, from its ultra-communicative and perfectly weighted steering to its supremely balanced and unruffled character in tight corners. Weighing in at 3,424 pounds ? nearly 200 pounds lighter than a comparably equipped 335i ? our 328i felt, if anything, a smidge more tossable than its turbocharged counterpart. At the track, the 328i snaked through the slalom cones at 68.5 mph, a few tenths quicker than a 335i sedan we tested recently, and braked from 60 mph to zero in 110 feet, 6 feet shorter than that 335i's best stop.Happily, the 328i's outstanding all-around performance doesn't come at the expense of efficiency. We averaged a respectable 22.5 miles per gallon over 1,030 miles of mostly enthusiastic driving, against EPA estimates of 18 mpg city, 28 highway and 21 combined. Our 328i even managed 31.2 mpg during a 213-mile freeway slog ? frugal enough to give some four-cylinder econoboxes a run for their money.


http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3series/2008/testdrive.html

Shebs

If you are referring to the fact that the 28i engine is lighter than the 35i engine, then it is absolutely ture that the lighter nose will always result in better slalom time. This is a fact know to all car enthusiasts.

However, the 528i and the 535i at Edmunds had different tires. The Dunlop Sport Maxx GT on the 528i is from the Max Perfomance tires category while the Goodyear Excellence tires are from the grand touring tires category. However, the 528i which was not equipped with Adaptive Drive failed to achieve better skidpad figure than the heavier 535i but achieved better slalom speed due to its grippier tires and lighter nose (170 lbs less weight). By the way, Edmunds slalom is a 100 ft slaom where the Body Roll effect contained within the AD will not have a huge influence as the tires. Watch the 750i video and you will see how far the cones are. If you want to understand the body roll effect on load transfer from inner to outer tires in a curve, I can start a new thread for that.

On the other hand, the 750i and the 535i were equipped with the same tires type and despite the much heavier nose and the 519 lbs extra weight, the 750i still managed a better slalom time than the 535i on a different day with the 750i equipped with active steering.

What annoys me also is Edmunds statement describing the new 528i: "Slalom: Feels fairly soft in rapid transitions-- even in Sport Plus. Is well mannered, however. Chassis isn't snappy like an Infiniti. BMW is showing a change of direction here."

The E65 7 series could never approach the track performance of the E60 5 series. Now we live in a world were the 7 series achieves better figures than the 5 series and where an Infinity has a snappier chassis than an equivalent BMW.

No wonder the new 5 series and the new 7 series are built on the same chassis .

v_therussian

I'll subscribe We need more threads like that IMHO

bm323

First, if "the lighter nose will always result in better slalom time" and "the new 5 series and the new 7 series are built on the same chassis", why does the new 750i achieved a better slalom time than the new 535i?

Shebs

May be because of the integral active steering? Lol

Actually this is a very good question. I actually have no definite answer for that question, and I thought about it a lot before you asked.

The only thing I can think of currently is that since the distance between the cones in the slalom is huge (100 ft), there might be some room for acceleration midway between the cones, and given the superior throttle response of the 750i a higher average speed might be obtained. It might also be the IAS having a huge effect on turn in, but I doubt that the total effect comes from the IAS alone.

Remember also that the chassis are not tuned the same way. Although the 750i weight distribution is identical to that of the 535i (52% to 48%). And as we discussed earlier, it might be the driver as well.

Looking at track times at Autozeitung, both the new 5 series and 7series achieve very close lap times with a very slight edge going to the 5 series. I have no doubt that the 5 will be faster in track than a similarily equipped 7 with the same hp/weight ratio.

However, the difference between the 7 series and the 5 series was never that slight. Welcome to the new BMW direction.

tadtaggert

Just points out the quality of the n63 and the very bad match of the n55 to the F10.