bm323

The point ie one cannot compare the 750i readings with the 535i, totally different engines 4.4 turbo with a 3 liter turbo and the former with IAS.

(@tadtaggert, I disagree that the the above posts in any way show the incompatibility of the N55 with the F10)

How then about the reasonably close readings between the 328i and the 528i in the other thread?

tadtaggert

I know. Incompatibility is the wrong word tho, poor match is closer to what I said.

N55 was developed for economy, both in terms of reducing manufacturing costs and improving fuel economy. To get it to any comparable level of performance to the N54 they had to up the boost. It's a good engine, it just doesn't match the characteristics of the F10, even with an eight speed auto.

bm323

Why poor match, and up the boost? I thought the recent comparison by (can't remember which one) was that it's arguable whether the N54 or N55 is better? Anyway, this is a different issue. My point is that the above posts in no way show that the N55 is a poor match for the F10. Above was seeking to compare a 750i with IAS and a 535i, which is a wrong comparison.

edit: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...55_engine.html

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...dan-quick_test

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz0xdbhkfkE heavier F10 achieving faster times at higher speed than the lighter E60

bm323

Pls post the links showing the tracktimes for the F10 550i for Autozeitung http://www.fastestlaps.com/car_BMW_550i_F10.html and Hockenheim http://www.fastestlaps.com/car_BMW_550i_F10.html ? The links don't show the laptimes, or which F10 are you referring to?

And also the car comparison link for the previous 7 and 5 series which you say was never that slight. The following one? http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso..._BMW_750i.html How about the comparison link for the new 5 and 7 series?

Seems like the 2 tracks have times for the E60 550i non turbo 4.8 liter, previous 750i non turbo 4.8 liter, new 750i 4.4 liter turbo but lacking the comparisons for the other 550i.

bm323

The F10 530d has the improved 3 liter diesel but is heavier, and beat the E60 2005 model

Autozeitung http://www.fastestla...-_BMW_530d.html


E60 Engine
Power170 kw (228 bhp / 231 ps)Torque500 Nm (370 lb-ft)Displacement3.0 litersEngine typeInline 6, Turbocharged, DieselEngine locationFront
General data
Gearbox6DriveRearMass1565 kilograms (3443 lbs)


F10 Engine
Power180 kw (242 bhp / 245 ps)Torque540 Nm (400 lb-ft)Displacement3.0 litersEngine typeR6 TurboDieselEngine locationFront
General data
Gearbox8-Speed-AutomaticDriveRearMass1720 kilograms (3784 lbs)

Shebs

I am glad to see that you are using the fastestlaps site now , just make sure that you cross check the data with the German Autozeitung site as I did in my previous analogies.

I do not understand why you are referring to the 550i or Hockenheim, I never mentioned any of them.

My earlier statement: "The difference between the 7 series and the 5 series was never that slight. Welcome to the new BMW direction." was derived from the following facts:

530d vs 730d

The cars are compared with exactly the same engines, which are relatively low power ones and the total difference in track time is only 1.4 s.

While for the previous models:

Old 550i vs. Old 750i

The cars are compared with the more powerful engines, yet the total difference in track time is 2.5 sec.

So as you can see, although the old models are compared with the more powerful engines, the track time difference was much higher than for the new models.

This is not surprising to me and it shouldn't be surprising to you as well. The difference in weight between the old cars was 15% to the 7 series, and the difference in weight for the new 7 and 5 is only 7% to the 7 series. This alone explains why the gap between the new 7 and the new 5 is smaller than the gap between the old ones, regardless of the fact that they are built on very close suspension designs from an engineering point of view.

Did you buy an F10 or in the process of doing so? If you haven't yet, then I recommend a 7 series .

I wish there existed a 7 and a 5 with the exact hp/weight ratio. Now that would have been very interesting comparison, and in my opinion, both would have achieved very similar track times.

bm323

well from your links above, the tracktimes do not bear out "the new 5 series and 7series achieve very close lap times". You first say that 1.4 seconds is "very close" and a "slight edge" but in the next breath, you say the difference between 1.4 seconds and 2.5 seconds ie 1.1 seconds is a big difference.

As regards my earlier comparison link

The F10 although heavier, with a improved engine and eg adaptive drive with the active anti-roll would perform better than the E60.

Try not to humour me let me instead recommend that you buy the E60 530i instead of the F10 523i, as enquired in your other thread. Does the F10 523i come with the same engine as the E60 523i in your place? And any old 7 and old 5 with the exact hp/weight ratio, such that they don't have similar tracktimes?

bm323

And are the F10 528i and 2008 328i performing reasonably close?



http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2010/10/2011-bmw-528i-track-tested.html#more

http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3series/2008/testdrive.html

Shebs

Without getting into an endless debate, most of professional magazines (C&D, Edmunds, Autocar, EVO, CAR), and owners including myself, who lived with both the E60 and F10 would tell that a similarily equipped E60 will have the edge on the F10 on track, in wind noise level, and top speed (for the same engines power due to higher coefficient of drag of the F10), while the F10 will outperform it in every other single aspect (while looks and interior design remain subjective).

I have tested the F10 523i against my E60 523i extensively for two days, and I agree to most magazines and owners opinions that the E60 is more sporty while the F10 is more luxurious and comfortable. I will start a thread when I have time with a description of each comparison category (performance, handling, comfort, luxury, design, ergonomics, and fuel economy). I will also include the Mercedes Benz W212 E300 since my family owns one and I have tested it extensively. I will include bird eye photos of the curves where the cars were tested, the racing lines tried and the overall results.

By time most tracks and magazines would have tested the new 528i, 535i, 530d, 535d, and 550i and we will have a good database of numbers to aid in making comparisons.

Regarding your recommendation for buying a new car, I am not growing any younger and I now have a wife and three months old child. If I was taking the decision 5 years ago, I would have definitely gone with the E60, but due to the changes in my personal life and the superiority of the F10 in most of other fields aside from track performance I am still considering an F10.

I have no personal benefit in claiming that the E60 has the edge on the F10 on track, this opinion was built on my own experience after driving both cars extensively. Wait for my comparison thread.

bm323

If so, why is the heavier F10 faster at higher speeds? http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz0xdbhkfkE

Imo the heavier F10 should not be prejudiced by subtracting from it options which are not available on the E60 eg adaptive drive with active anti-roll, and arguably improved engines. Need to take into account the F10 is also heavier due to safety requirements and improved safety features, and luxury features which plenty of the crowd desire.

The E60 may give the impression it's more sporty as it has less the luxury.