cobradav

Of the now four Chip tuners for the 4.4L engine Wetterauer seems to have tuned for the most torque of them all. All the HPs seem to be within 360 HP +/- 3HP. But torque ranges from a low of 460 to a high of 495Nm. Quite a spread compared to HP. Wetterauer claims they tune for max torque by intent. They also offer up to 3 year extended warranty (at a cost of about $99 a year). For now they seem the most difficult to get done in the US as they do not yet have an ECU programmer in the US. Chip has to be removed and sent to Germany right now.

Other than the DMS Chip tune I do not know of a single other forum experience with the 4.4L engine chipping. Anyone now of any others or how to find more "real life" experiences? This excludes alex.br's piggyback module which I have excluded for purposes of this thread.

Iceman

Yep. It is their own warranty, since the BMW warranty is voided.



Unfortunately you're not right. The dealers and tuning companys allways tell you it is not detectable and ndoesn't void the warranty.
But it does void the warranty and it is detectable! If they are really looking for it, they see it! There is no stealth way of doing it!
Perfect example for the BS they keep telling everybody is: "it is not detectable"... If it doesn't void the warranty... why is it so important that it is not detectable? Why do they tell you?... Just because it voids the warranty!


Ahem. It's not the dealer who is giving warranty on a BMW, it is BMW itself. So the dealer is not trying to tell a customer BS, since it is even better for him if the BMW warranty covers stuff. Happy customer, payment through BMW. The dealer can't give nor void the warranty. It is BMW who is not responsible anymore if you do ANY mod. Therefore, BMW voids the warranty, not the dealer!


Well, as said above, it IS detectable.
If you bring your car to your dealer and he checks the car, he can see EVERYTHING! How often you used which device/gadget, how often you started the engine, simply EVERYTHING!!!
Also they can - if they want - see if the chip is still originall or not!
Trust me. I know it!


Nope. BMW is not responsible. They can show proof that any part, whatever part they want, had such bad influence that their original part broke! They can!! And then they are NOT responsible!
They have chosen to make the engine with this very specific HP, Nm, etc... for a good reason. If you mod the engine because it can be done and you want it... Then you are risking damage, and BMW is not responsible anymore. You know, sometimes even regular standard BMW non-modified/non-chipped engines brake... They make the engine with those specs just to have it on the safe side. Yes, it can do more and probably without damage, but if you mod the engine, they can find out, and it definately voids the warranty. They can show proof that your mod was the reason for the engine failure.

Iceman

Well, if you FedEx it this shouldn't take any longer than a couple days.
Have you called their US office? I thought I remember seeing a list of US partners...

cobradav

Well, if you FedEx it this shouldn't take any longer than a couple days.
Have you called their US office? I thought I remember seeing a list of US partners...
[/quote]
Yes email and voice. They keep extending the date that their Programming device (and possibly trained engineer/technician) will be available in the U.S. I have traffic from their marketing/sales folks and also spoke to technical folks on the logistics end of it, were to be done at one of their authorized dealers. Specifically for the 4.4L engine it had to shipped to 1) the U.S programmer or 2) the German home facility. In fact they mentioned the Fed Ex process and I had no problem with that part. It was getting the ECU package out & in since there are no tuning shops close by and really wanted a Wetterauer sponsored house to do it. It looked to be a DIY and I am not comfortable with that what with all the warranty issues to start with. I would have to battle Wetterauer as well as BMW should something go wrong under MY operation I have dealt with VLSI chips my entire life but its a lot different between scrubbing a launch and MY $$

znod

Nope. BMW is not responsible. They can show proof that any part, whatever part they want, had such bad influence that their original part broke! They can!! And then they are NOT responsible!

You appear to be saying the BMW is likely to cheat its customers--because the fact is that many things can go wrong downstream of an aftermarket part that is not the fault of the part. I agree that auto manufacturers in general, and apparently BMW specifically, will try to get out of paying for legitimate claims by claiming an aftermarket part was responsible for the problem. Ergo, as mentioned, I do my best to avoid such situations by having only Dinan parts, except for exhausts, installed by only my Dinan certified dealer. My dealer says there won't be a warranty problem with a Dinan installed part. Of course, the dealer may be choosing to cheat BMW because it knows that BMW will cheat either the customer or Dinan.

They have chosen to make the engine with this very specific HP, Nm, etc... for a good reason. If you mod the engine because it can be done and you want it... Then you are risking damage, and BMW is not responsible anymore. You know, sometimes even regular standard BMW non-modified/non-chipped engines brake... They make the engine with those specs just to have it on the safe side. Yes, it can do more and probably without damage, but if you mod the engine, they can find out, and it definately voids the warranty. They can show proof that your mod was the reason for the engine failure.

No, risking damage by installing an after-market part doesn't void the warranty in the US--unless you are arguing that it is void by default since few will be able to challenge BMW on its sometimes illegitimate claims concering problems caused by aftermarket parts. BMW can't acutally void any part of a warranty in the US simply because an aftermarket part is installed. But, I agree it can void specific parts of a warranty if it has legitimate reason to believe that an after-market part is the reason for the problem.

[/quote]

EuroCarFan

Nope. BMW is not responsible. They can show proof that any part, whatever part they want, had such bad influence that their original part broke! They can!! And then they are NOT responsible!

You appear to be saying the BMW is likely to cheat its customers--because the fact is that many things can go wrong downstream of an aftermarket part that is not the fault of the part. I agree that auto manufacturers in general, and apparently BMW specifically, will try to get out of paying for legitimate claims by claiming an aftermarket part was responsible for the problem. Ergo, as mentioned, I do my best to avoid such situations by having only Dinan parts, except for exhausts, installed by only my Dinan certified dealer. My dealer says there won't be a warranty problem with a Dinan installed part. Of course, the dealer may be choosing to cheat BMW because it knows that BMW will cheat either the customer or Dinan.

They have chosen to make the engine with this very specific HP, Nm, etc... for a good reason. If you mod the engine because it can be done and you want it... Then you are risking damage, and BMW is not responsible anymore. You know, sometimes even regular standard BMW non-modified/non-chipped engines brake... They make the engine with those specs just to have it on the safe side. Yes, it can do more and probably without damage, but if you mod the engine, they can find out, and it definately voids the warranty. They can show proof that your mod was the reason for the engine failure.

No, risking damage doesn't void the warranty in the US--unless you are arguing that it is void by default since few will be able to challenge BMW on its apparently illegitimate claims concering problems caused by aftermarket parts. BMW can't acutally void any part of a warranty in the US simply because an aftermarket part is installed. But, I agree it can void specific parts of a warranty if it has legitimate reason to believe that an after-market part is the reason for the problem.

[/quote]
[/quote]

All this warranty-voiding talk is killing my horsepower appetite....

EuroCarFan

I might just be the guinea pig for Upsolute since they have a dealer really close to my house who has guaranteed that they will reprogram my car if a CIP upgrade happens to reset the tuning. That's a big advantage from having to send my ECU anywhere.

stream

In the US, a manufacturer cannot deny a warranty claim simply because a non-OEM part has been added to a car, unless they can prove that the mod caused the OEM part to fail. For example, if you upgrade your brakes, and later there's a problem with your engine, the two are unrelated and the manufacturer cannot deny a warranty claim on the engine failure.

Having said that, anybody who chips their car (or adds a supercharger, new throttle body, etc.) should do it with their eyes wide open that, if there's a problem with your engine (or potentially any part of the drive train), they run the risk of being denied a warranty claim, since the mod (which increases engine power, and therefore stress on the entire drive train) could be claimed by the manufacturer to have caused the problem.

The warranty section of the Dinan website ( http://dinancars.com/filepreview.asp?pdf=d...anty_Update.pdf ) takes away with one hand what they gave with the other hand.

First they say:
The Authorized Dinan Dealer will, without charge for parts or labor, repair or replace the defective Dinan component(s), as well as any original vehicle manufacturer?s component(s) that may have been directly affected by a Dinan component, using new or authorized remanufactured parts.

Then they say:
The installation of Dinan Performance Products and systems may affect the vehicle manufacturer?s new car limited warranty. The vehicle manufacturer?s new car limited warranty may not apply to modifications to a vehicle or the installation of any performance accessories or components attached to the vehicle which substantially alter the original engineering and/or operating specifications or which result in damage to other original vehicle manufacturer?s components.

So, buyer beware. Not necessarily a reason to not mod your car, but do it with your eyes wide open, recognizing that any chipping can be detected (and will likely be written over by CIP updates), and any mods that can be claimed to cause damage to OEM parts are risking voiding the manufacturers warranty on the affected parts--but not the entire warranty--and then you get in the middle of a finger pointing contest between the car manufacturer and tuning company...and rest assured they all have lawyers that know how to handle these situations.

znod

Iceman

There IS a difference ???





that's what I am talking about.
BMW WILL prove that your aftermarket part is causing the trouble, trust me. They find a way to blame the part you've installed!



Yep, exactly. They WILL prove that the aftermarket part caused the trouble. They are prepared for everything that can happen!



They are prepared and will show prove that the new brakes had a bad influence on the engine. If they want to... I know that very often they simply don't care and just do things under warranty which they could've denied.


Yep. No reason to NOT mod the car, but you need to know what you're doing. Don't let them push you around when something goes wrong, know the law.
Everything CAN be detected, but only if they really search for it.
Sometimes you don't even have problems with claims when you expect problems to appear.


BTW: chip tuning will not be written over by new CIP's.