Lots of good stuff here.

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

Another thing to note here:
If you signed a contract at your dealer, during time of purchase for your new e60, which states in the fine print that the dealership and/or BMW may void your warranty if they have reasonable suspicion or evidence to prove that you modified your vehicle in any way, then you would have no grounds to support your case.

I think it won't matter what the laws are in any country to help protect the consumer if you signed such a document.

Please, someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

Also, just for good measure (and friendly advice):

The last person you should believe about whether or not an auto manufacturer's warranty is voided...is an aftermarket company/vendor.

'Nuff said.

 

There IS a difference ???





that's what I am talking about.
BMW WILL prove that your aftermarket part is causing the trouble, trust me. They find a way to blame the part you've installed!



Yep, exactly. They WILL prove that the aftermarket part caused the trouble. They are prepared for everything that can happen!



They are prepared and will show prove that the new brakes had a bad influence on the engine. If they want to... I know that very often they simply don't care and just do things under warranty which they could've denied.


Yep. No reason to NOT mod the car, but you need to know what you're doing. Don't let them push you around when something goes wrong, know the law.
Everything CAN be detected, but only if they really search for it.
Sometimes you don't even have problems with claims when you expect problems to appear.


BTW: chip tuning will not be written over by new CIP's.
[/quote]
Is it fair to say that what you are alleging is that BMW will cheat its customers? I think that is a distinct possibility given personal experiences with other manufacturers? But, cheating a customer is a very different thing than the legal voiding of a warranty.

"BTW: chip tuning will not be written over by new CIP's."

I had thought that was the case. But, what you say is good to know.

 

Yep, and who can you trust? Even the BMW dealers, or at least some of them, say there is no problem with Dinan parts installed by a Dinan certified BMW dealer--at least if they are the dealer. Do we routinely sign contracts with clauses of the type you mention above? I will look at mine. I don't know if signing such a thing will protect BMW or not-- but probably IMO. These issues are one reason that, among other things, I am sticking with only BMW specified tire sizes. Surely, BMW would not create warranty problems over after-market wheels. Would they? Well, OK, good that I bought the type 101s as depicted in the 5-series accesssory book.

 

No.
What I am saying is, there is a LEGAL possibility that your warranty will be voided.
EVERY company in the world will try to find a way to NOT pay anything more than absolutely necessary. In the case of the car, there are several ways to prove that the customers mod caused the problem, no matter what kind of problem it is. If they want to, they will blame the aftermarket part and not pay anything.
They are not cheating, they are just using the law for them. Dinan, not telling BMW about the mod when there is a claim, is cheating. But in any way, mostly chiptuning doesn't cause ANY trouble itself, and the tuning company gives you a warranty.
Having said that, the warranty on the engine is a two year warranty, so do the mod after the second year, and get the warranty of the tuning company, what can be up to three years in Wetterauers case. Then you have a total of five years of warranty, and after two years of getting used to the car you get the increased HP and Nm.

 

No.
What I am saying is, there is a LEGAL possibility that your warranty will be voided.
EVERY company in the world will try to find a way to NOT pay anything more than absolutely necessary. In the case of the car, there are several ways to prove that the customers mod caused the problem, no matter what kind of problem it is.
[/quote]I have enjoyed the conversation. I am going to make a few more points and then give it up.

You say:

" In the case of the car, there are several ways to prove that the customers mod caused the problem, no matter what kind of problem it is."

It is not true that every part failure is caused by an after-market part--given that one has been installed. Thus, one can't prove "that the customers mod caused the problem, no matter what kind of problem it is." For example, one prove that after market spark plug wires caused a transmission failure--at least I would wager that is so. One can assert that a mod caused the problem, but that is not proof. To resolve the issue one might have to take BMW to court. But, of course, BMW knows that very few will. If BMW asserts that a mod caused a problem, when it knows that it probably did not, then the company is cheating its customer.

 

No.
What I am saying is, there is a LEGAL possibility that your warranty will be voided.
EVERY company in the world will try to find a way to NOT pay anything more than absolutely necessary. In the case of the car, there are several ways to prove that the customers mod caused the problem, no matter what kind of problem it is.
[/quote]I have enjoyed the conversation. I am going to make a few more points and then give it up.

You say:

"In the case of the car, there are several ways to prove that the customers mod caused the problem, no matter what kind of problem it is."

It is not true that every part failure is caused by an after-market part--given that one has been installed. Thus, one can't prove "that the customers mod caused the problem, no matter what kind of problem it is." For example, one can't prove that after-market sparkplug wires caused a transmission failure--at least I would wager that is so. One can assert that a mod caused the problem, but that is not proof. To resolve the issue one might have to take BMW to court. But, of course, BMW knows that very few will. If BMW asserts that a mod caused a problem, when it knows that it probably did not, then the company is cheating its customer.
[/quote]

 

Trust me, they can prove that ANY part can cause ANY kind of problem. Then it's up to you, to show prove that they are lying, but you can''t, because what they will tell you could really be true.
They pay millions for testing, they are lightyears ahead of our understanding of the car and how it works.
It's not cheating. The law gives them the freedom they use.

But what Dinan is doing is cheating, since they know the truth and keep telling everybody lies. And they try to get stuff done under warranty if things go wrong, knowing that BMW would not accept the claim if a Dinan part was involved.

However, I would do chip tuning and wouldn't care about problems, because problems are extremely rare.

 

Just heard back from my "local" Upsolute Chiptuning guy.

"Hello,

We do offer programming for your vehicle. The number provided for the hp/torque are conservative and are due to the fact that Upsolute must be TUV approve in europe, so all cars must have the horsepower that is listed. I would need the car for a few hours and it would have to be in the morning. I work out of my house and would only be able to do it on a friday by appointment. I also would like to have the ECU number ahead of time to make sure i can get a file for it if possible, if not, i can find out when the car is here. The price is $400 plus install ($25). We do not have dyno plots for this car. Please email me with any other questions you may have or if you would like to set an appointment.
/dave"

I am to trust my $80k car to this guy working out of his home?

I think not. MAybe I'll try a larger city in Florida and see if I can at least get a shop with at least a garage and maybe a Dyno.

 

Hey, it looks like Kelleners Sport also offers chip tuning for the e60: http://www.kellenersusa.com/index.php?page...g&productid=909

Their claim seems a bit more modest than the others.