Iceman

Now you are confusing our US members...

The amazing EU...

znod

That'S not true.

It is true. I reported what Dinan told me. Whether Dinan told me the truth or stated things badly is a different story. I might have misunderstood what they said, but I am very confident that I interpreted their words correctly.

As you mention, the essense of the BMW warranty could remain in effect either because a Dinan certified installer fails to tell BMW about an at-fault Dinan part or because Dinan makes good on the warranty. I am not sure why a BMW dealer would want to defraud BMW on an at-fault part if Dinan is obligated to make good on the warranty, but there might be some reason. For example, maybe a dealer would not want Dinan to incur warranty costs to help them stay in business so the dealer could sell more Dinan parts and installations. Any thoughts?

On a related matter, I think US law holds that a warranty cannot be voided on a particular problem because of an aftermarket part unless it can be shown that the part caused the problem. But, I don't want to be in the position of having to demonstrate that an aftermarket part didn't cause a problem so I have Dinan parts installed by my Dinan certified BMW dealer--doing the best I can to avoid such isses. And, of course, an entire car warranty cannot be voided in the US because of the installation of an aftermarket part--e.g., a Dinan or B&B exhaust.



This states that BMW might not cover the problem. It means, the Dinan certified BMW dealer is simply not telling BMW about the Dinan parts and that they maybe caused the problem, but if somehow BMW knows or finds out, they cover it... That's kind of fraudulent to BMW.

Yes, it says that BMW might not cover the problem. Are you saying that BMW is not obligated to cover a problem associated with an improperly installed Dinan part even when installed by a Dinan certified BMW dealer? That may be true; Dinan may be the obligated party. Or the Dinan certified installer may be obligated. I am not completely clear on the BMW/Dinan relationship.

And, incidentally, who pays if a BMW part is installed improperly by a BMW dealership?


There is the magic word: AFTERMARKET

Yes, the Dinan after-market warranty is a very good one.

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heezy545i

Like it has been said, dinan covers you through their own warranty. If you do a search on various bmw boards however, getting warranty work through them is not always the easiest thing.

If the dinan chip for the 545 is similar to their other chips, expect a higher redline, but not much more. If we had e46s, I'd say you could get more for your money elsewhere, since the aftermarket for the e60 is somewhat slim however, you might be out of luck. Still, I'd invest my time and money in other tuners.

soc_fans

As far as i know, the chip that i did will not void my warranty. It is just an ECU reprogramming. BMW will not detect or know that you have done an ECU reprogramming to your car. I hope i am right.. <_<

znod

I hope you are right too. From what I have read in these discussions it is easy to tell if chipping has been done. But, I cannot say for sure. Maybe I am missing the point since you emphasize what you did as being just an ECU programming.

EuroCarFan

Some, if not most, chip tuning companies state that the upgrade is undetectable by diagnostic tools. Upsolute Chiptuning is one such company.

With regards to factory warranties, here's an excerpt from the FAQ page of www.powerchipgroup.com:

Q: Will the Powerchip upgrade void my new car Warranty?

A: No. The Powerchip upgrade will not void the manufacturers warranty with the execption of 2 issues being:

a) The Powerchip program causes damage to the vehicle or

b) The Powerchip affects emissions or the emissions system.

Federal law protects consumers against dealers who attempt to void warranty for fitting aftermarket equipment or accessories.


The last reference to Federal law refers to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act which essentially states that dealers cannot simply void warranties because of aftermarket equipment but that they'd have to prove that such equipment caused damage to the vehicle.

Hope this helps.

swajames

On a related note, DMS just emailed me again re the 545 remap and reconfirmed that the remap was undectable by BMW. I also got a contact name and number for the guy in Illinois and they said that the price was around $1200 US. They also have an engineer from the UK visiting the US later in October to handle a number of the upgrades. Anyone understand the differences between what upsolute do and what DMS do?

EuroCarFan

Hey swajames. Stupid question, what does DMS stand for?

From what I was told Upsolute is a program. I think it's the same as what Powerchip offers. There's no hardware so you can't detect anything visually (as well as diagnostically per their claim). So my guess is that Upsolute and DMS are probably the same.

There are probably other chip companies out there that sells actual chip replacements.

znod

Exactly--which means that BMW is responsible for fixing anything that cannot be shown to be the fault of an aftermarket part including a Dinan part. Thus, a Dinan certified BMW dealer would not be defrauding BMW by having BMW fix a problem not caused by a Dinan part at least assuming the part was installed properly (and also assuming there is no agreement to the contrary between BMW and Dinan).

Dinan apparently will pick up the cost of things not covered by BMW including problems arising from parts installed improperly by a Certified BMW shop--at least if the shop is unwilling to make good on the bad installation. Presumably, any certified Dinan shop installing a Dinan part incorrectly would, in principle, be obligated to cover any subsequent problems related to the installation. But, as mentioned, Dinan says it will cover subsequent problems if, for any reason, those who should cover them won't.

swajames

EuroCarFan, DMS is one of the companies that are offering remaps for the E60, based over in the UK. Not really sure what DMS itself stands for but they have successfully remapped a number of EU members' diesel E60's with some pretty spectacular results and look like a very reputable outfit. Their website is www.dmsautomotive.com, well worth a quick look.