jsal

with Dinans reputation, I would not think they would BS. Although 17hp gain seems like an awfull lot and I think it would be somewhat dependent on how open the back end is. Cold air is definately an improvement, but if you can't push it out quick enough, it does not seem like you would get the full gain - or if you do open the exhaust is the air intake going to give you even more???

It makes sense that your gains will be at the upper RPM range. I would think, the only way you are going to really increase torque/hp at the lower range is by bigger pistons, valves, cams.

EuroCarFan

If you look at the order of the products on Dinan's site, you can see that the cumulative power gain increases with each additional mod. Starting at the top, you have the Intake and then the exhaust and throttle body with incremental increases. The combined mods gives you a net hp total of 350.

znod

You are exactly right. In this regard, everyone note that Dinan now gives a HP value for its exhaust (6 HP), and the value for its throttle body is changed from 8 HP to 5 HP. I presume that the change for the throttle body is because it is down line from the intake, but I am not totally sure if this idea makes sense. Dinan says the cumulative total is 350 HP. But, it should be 325 + 17 + 6 + 5 = 353 HP. It is a little disconcerting to realize that Dinan is talking about flywheel HP. I thought Dinan had indicated to me before that their measure is RWHP--which would yield a flywheel increment of about 28 / .85 = 33 HP (which is not a huge difference, but every little bit helps--see the first "Mind Candy" link in my sig). I'll be talking to Dinan this afternoon and will let you know what I find out. I have ordered the intake. "You may be right, I may be crazy, but a lunatic may be just what .....

Bimmer32

You are exactly right. In this regard, everyone note that Dinan now gives a HP value for its exhaust (6 HP), and the value for its throttle body is changed from 8 HP to 5 HP. I presume that the change for the throttle body is because it is down line from the intake, but I am not totally sure if this idea makes sense. Dinan says the cumulative total is 350 HP. But, it should be 325 + 17 + 6 + 5 = 353 HP. It is a little disconcerting to realize that Dinan is talking about flywheel HP. I thought Dinan had indicated to me before that their measure is RWHP--which would yield a flywheel increment of about 28 / .85 = 33 HP (which is not a huge difference, but every little bit helps--see the first "Mind Candy" link in my sig). I'll be talking to Dinan this afternoon and will let you know what I find out. I have ordered the intake. "Now you may think I'm crazy, but I'm just a lunatic ..." How does that, is it Rolling Stones, song go?
[/quote]

This may be off topic, but do you know when Dinan will offer a supercharger (stage 1). There a company called VF engineering that will offer a supercharger for the 545i and 550i by mid summer 06. They are testing it on the 645i right now. The supposed HP gain will raise the 325 hp very close to 500 HP with everything else stock. It comes with a new manifold too. The cost will be close to $9000 installed, which assuming that it creates between 150-175 HP, would mean $51-60 per HP. I'm not sure if BMW will honor the warranty with this installation. My goal/hope is to upgrade to a supercharger when financing provides but my fear is voiding the warranty.

Do you know if BMW honors warranty with a Dinan supercharger, or air intake change for that matter? BTW, the website to VF is:

http://www.vf-engineering.com

znod

This may be off topic, but do you know when Dinan will offer a supercharger (stage 1). There a company called VF engineering that will offer a supercharger for the 545i and 550i by mid summer 06. They are testing it on the 645i right now. The supposed HP gain will raise the 325 hp very close to 500 HP with everything else stock. It comes with a new manifold too. The cost will be close to $9000 installed, which assuming that it creates between 150-175 HP, would mean $51-60 per HP. I'm not sure if BMW will honor the warranty with this installation. My goal/hope is to upgrade to a supercharger when financing provides but my fear is voiding the warranty.

Do you know if BMW honors warranty with a Dinan supercharger, or air intake change for that matter? BTW, the website to VF is:

http://www.vf-engineering.com
[/quote]Hi B32:

I read somewhere, maybe on the Dinan site, that it would not do a supercharger for the 545i because of the complexity of the Valvetronics engines. But, then we saw that the Alpina B5 is supercharged--where that installation may have been facilitated by the use of some special Alpina parts. So, the bottom line is that I am uncercertain if, and definitely when, Dinan will do a supercharger for the 545i. Dinan called me today after I left home. When I talk to them tomorrow, I'll try to remember to ask.

On the warranty issue, you have every reason to be concerned--especially with forced induction. Let's say that you put an aftermarket part on your car, and it causes a BMW part to break. Then, BMW will not honor its warranty on the broken part and needed labor--but your whole warranty is not voided. If you are to get a warranty repair, then it will have to be under the warranty coverage of the after-market part manufacturer. If the manufacturer does not provide such a warranty, then you are out of luck. If it does, then good unless, for some reason, it does not perform under its warranty obligation. Thus, if one installs an after-market part that is likely to produce a BMW part failure, then the best idea is to use a manufacturer/installer that provides a sound warranty. Given its longevity, financial condition, and tight relationship with BMW, Dinan is the one to go with if at all possible--IMO. Dinan's parts are expensive, but I would gladly pay any "excess" simply because of the warranty implications (more later on this point).

Even if dealing with an after-market manufacturer that provides a warranty, BMW may say, justifiably or not, that the manufacturer's part caused a BMW part to break. And, the manufacturer may deny BMW's claim. Under these conditions, the BMW auto owner can end up in between--with a car that no one will agree to fix. Obviously, this scenario is not good news. It may become necessary for the individual to pay for the repairs himself or to sue someone--the latter option ususally being the worst option to pursue (i.e., one wants to avoid lawsuits especially when fighting companies with much deeper pockets).

But, this kind of scenario should not develop if Dinan is the manufacturer and a Dinan certified shop does the installation--at least if what Dinan told me is true. In this regard, many BMW dealers are Dinan certified. Dinan says that not one of its customers has ever ended up in the kind of squeeze described above. That is, either BMW or Dinan has always coverd the BMW part failure. I am not naive; I know that Dinan may have misrepresented what it said intentionally or otherwise. Thus, there is no absolutely risk-free way to pursue after-market parting--and, for more uncertainty, see below.

I have talked with my BMW well-established SA about these issues. He says that, in his experience, what Dinan says is true. He does not sugar coat anything AFAIK. He says it can be a fine line when deciding whether BMW or Dinan pays, and he has seen it go either way. Thus, a warranty repair may take longer than usual under some circumstances--until the decision is made about who is going to pay.

I want to note that Iceman says that BMW has the where-with-all to make a reasonable case that any BMW part failure was caused by any after-market part. I hope that I am representing his view accurately. Assuming I have stated his view correctly, it sounds extreme. He says additionally that if a dealer does not contest a warranty claim when an after-market part has been installed, then the dealer is cheating BMW. Again, I hope I have represented this position, which also seems extreme, accurately. I am hoping that he will correct any misrepresentations I have made. But, if he is correct, then the implication is that one better be dealing with an after-market part manufacturer/installer that has a dandy warranty.

The bottom line on all of this is that I feel safe enough dealing with my BMW dealer, a certified Dinan shop, Dinan, and BMW. But, I think there still is risk. In my opinion, there is not riskless after-market part installation from a warranty perspective. In this regard, there is no risk-free warranty period--because it always can be claimed by any party involved that the failure of a BMW part resulted from user negligence or abuse. ~{;^)

Bimmer32

This may be off topic, but do you know when Dinan will offer a supercharger (stage 1). There a company called VF engineering that will offer a supercharger for the 545i and 550i by mid summer 06. They are testing it on the 645i right now. The supposed HP gain will raise the 325 hp very close to 500 HP with everything else stock. It comes with a new manifold too. The cost will be close to $9000 installed, which assuming that it creates between 150-175 HP, would mean $51-60 per HP. I'm not sure if BMW will honor the warranty with this installation. My goal/hope is to upgrade to a supercharger when financing provides but my fear is voiding the warranty.

Do you know if BMW honors warranty with a Dinan supercharger, or air intake change for that matter? BTW, the website to VF is:

http://www.vf-engineering.com
[/quote]Hi B32:

I read somewhere, maybe on the Dinan site, that it would not do a supercharger for the 545i because of the complexity of the Valvetronics engines. But, then we saw that the Alpina B5 is supercharged--where that installation may have been facilitated by the use of some special Alpina parts. So, the bottom line is that I am uncercertain if, and definitely when, Dinan will do a supercharger for the 545i. Dinan called me today after I left home. When I talk to them tomorrow, I'll try to remember to ask.

On the warranty issue, you have every reason to be concerned--especially with forced induction. Let's say that you put an aftermarket part on your car, and it causes a BMW part to break. Then, BMW will not honor its warranty on the broken part and needed labor--but your whole warranty is not voided. If you are to get a warranty repair, then it will have to be under the warranty coverage of the after-market part manufacturer. If the manufacturer does not provide such a warranty, then you are out of luck. If it does, then good unless, for some reason, it does not perform under its warranty obligation. Thus, if one installs an after-market part that is likely to produce a BMW part failure, then the best idea is to use a manufacturer/installer that provides a sound warranty. Given its longevity, financial condition, and tight relationship with BMW, Dinan is the one to go with if at all possible--IMO. Dinan's parts are expensive, but I would gladly pay any "excess" simply because of the warranty implications (more later on this point).

Even if dealing with an after-market manufacturer that provides a warranty, BMW may say, justifiably or not, that the manufacturer's part caused a BMW part to break. And, the manufacturer may deny BMW's claim. Under these conditions, the BMW auto owner can end up in between--with a car that no one will agree to fix. Obviously, this scenario is not good news. It may become necessary for the individual to pay for the repairs himself or to sue someone--the latter option ususally being the worst option to pursue (i.e., one wants to avoid lawsuits especially when fighting companies with much deeper pockets).

But, this kind of scenario should not develop if Dinan is the manufacturer and a Dinan certified shop does the installation--at least if what Dinan told me is true. In this regard, many BMW dealers are Dinan certified. Dinan says that not one of its customers has ever ended up in the kind of squeeze described above. That is, either BMW or Dinan has always coverd the BMW part failure. I am not naive; I know that Dinan may have misrepresented what it said intentionally or otherwise. Thus, there is no absolutely risk-free way to pursue after-market parting--and, for more uncertainty, see below.

I have talked with my BMW well-established SA about these issues. He says that, in his experience, what Dinan says is true. He does not sugar coat anything AFAIK. He says it can be a fine line when deciding whether BMW or Dinan pays, and he has seen it go either way. Thus, a warranty repair may take longer than usual under some circumstances--until the decision is made about who is going to pay.

I want to note that Iceman says that BMW has the where-with-all to make a reasonable case that any BMW part failure was caused by any after-market part. I hope that I am representing his view accurately. Assuming I have stated his view correctly, it sounds extreme. He says additionally that if a dealer does not contest a warranty claim when an after-market part has been installed, then the dealer is cheating BMW. Again, I hope I have represented this position, which also seems extreme, accurately. I am hoping that he will correct any misrepresentations I have made. But, if he is correct, then the implication is that one better be dealing with an after-market part manufacturer/installer that has a dandy warranty.

The bottom line on all of this is that I feel safe enough dealing with my BMW dealer, a certified Dinan shop, Dinan, and BMW. But, I think there still is risk. In my opinion, there is not riskless after-market part installation from a warranty perspective. In this regard, there is no risk-free warranty period--because it always can be claimed by any party involved that the failure of a BMW part resulted from user negligence or abuse. ~{;^)
[/quote]

Thanks vnod; this is a good breakdown of "what-ifs" for aftermarket parts and original warranty. I surely do not want to get into the middle of two companies pointing fingers at each other; in most cases, the customer suffers in the process and in the end. I might just wait until my warranty runs out or when Dinan changes their minds on making a supercharger. I agree with the "no risk free" consequences.

znod

You are very welcome. As mentioned, I'll try to remember to ask Dinan about supercharging the 545i. Check out the second set of "Mind Candy" photos using the second link in my sig. About half of them are awaiting some Photoshopping, but usually the car, itself, looks good.

Bimmer32

You are very welcome. As mentioned, I'll try to remember to ask Dinan about supercharging the 545i. Check out the second set of "Mind Candy" photos using the second link in my sig. About half of them are awaiting some Photoshopping, but usually the car, itself, looks good.
[/quote]

Love those pics and the BB tips look really nice.

znod

Love those pics and the BB tips look really nice.
[/quote]
Thanks much. Hey, what are we doing up so late? I don't remember, but did you see the Kierland Mall pics in the "The Competition" section. I am going to set up an album for them and keep adding to it--mainly from Kierland.

And, manana. This dude's putting the laptop down.

znod

Dinan/Biil called this morn. I have no big info. If there is a supercharger (SC), then it won't come out until way after the release of 545i programming--supposedly near the start of the new year. Bill was unsure about whether the Valvetronics would be a major issue, but said that it would present a complication. His gut feeling was that Dinan probably wouldn't do a 545i SC.

I found out that the filter for the CAI is an oiled filter--which Dinan wants the customer to replace after 20K or 30K miles--20K in a dusty environment like Phoenix. I never reoil oiled filters anyway. I just trash them and buy a new one for the reason given by Dinan; it's too easy to over oil and, thus, to foul the MAF sensor.

The CAI requires no cutting, but it requires some drilling. Not sure how they do it but two cold air tubes, one from each side of the radiator, feed directly into the airbox.