Why are European cars better than America?
12-21-2006 | 06:58 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by 300TTto545' post='369923' date='Dec 21 2006, 03:39 PM
Great discussion.
The vast majority of drivers - European and American - do not fully realize the advantages of a BMW. There is no question a driving culture difference based on roadways and history. In Europe - a smaller percentage of people drive - and as such - they are on average better drivers. Europeans (I hate to stereotype) drive corners faster and are more used to/comfortable in smaller cars. The higher fuel prices also contribute to this culture.
Americans take corners incredibly slowly and are not comfortable with higher speeds. So they choose to drive SUVs because their poor handling etc doesn't bother them. Finally - their gas mileage is starting to bother people but it hasn't for 30 years.
The big 3 cater to this public that slows to 10 mph for a corner and drive under 80 mph all the time. This public thinks that BMW drive a little harsh. They have put their engineering "talent" into SUVs and not sedans - much to the detriment of them as fuel prices rise and concern for CO2 does.
Lastly - the big 3 interiors suck. Most of the public cares. They appreciate the Audi interior but it isn't as much of a priority as space and ride height. But for a utility vehicle - the interiors do okay.
A friend bought a Cadillac (the $50k hotrod 4 door sedan) at the same time as I got my 545. 3 radiators. Far more dealer visits than me. The car is a bit faster but really doesn't compare to a 5 series.
The vast majority of drivers - European and American - do not fully realize the advantages of a BMW. There is no question a driving culture difference based on roadways and history. In Europe - a smaller percentage of people drive - and as such - they are on average better drivers. Europeans (I hate to stereotype) drive corners faster and are more used to/comfortable in smaller cars. The higher fuel prices also contribute to this culture.
Americans take corners incredibly slowly and are not comfortable with higher speeds. So they choose to drive SUVs because their poor handling etc doesn't bother them. Finally - their gas mileage is starting to bother people but it hasn't for 30 years.
The big 3 cater to this public that slows to 10 mph for a corner and drive under 80 mph all the time. This public thinks that BMW drive a little harsh. They have put their engineering "talent" into SUVs and not sedans - much to the detriment of them as fuel prices rise and concern for CO2 does.
Lastly - the big 3 interiors suck. Most of the public cares. They appreciate the Audi interior but it isn't as much of a priority as space and ride height. But for a utility vehicle - the interiors do okay.
A friend bought a Cadillac (the $50k hotrod 4 door sedan) at the same time as I got my 545. 3 radiators. Far more dealer visits than me. The car is a bit faster but really doesn't compare to a 5 series.
In a nut shell - US mfrs. design solely for their internal market considerations, they have not moved on in their approach from their past - BMW, and most European cars, are designed with competitive world-wide markets in mind......................
12-21-2006 | 07:04 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by subterFUSE' post='369876' date='Dec 21 2006, 05:11 AM
Yeah.... she was scared because the Vette is a piece of crap American car with a big engine.
Anybody can stick a big engine under a hood, and make a car go fast. But it takes good engineering to design a frame which can contain all that power, and give the operator good control. That's what BMW does, and what few other brands are capable of.
Anybody can stick a big engine under a hood, and make a car go fast. But it takes good engineering to design a frame which can contain all that power, and give the operator good control. That's what BMW does, and what few other brands are capable of.
12-21-2006 | 07:52 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='369933' date='Dec 21 2006, 11:04 AM
The Corvette was a convertible, that's not the best example of the C6. Not that they are in any way direct competitors, but the C6 coupe is lighter, faster and better handling than your 545 and my 550. Interior is a little cheap, but the car itself is the real deal. Incidentally, even with the convertible, I've never seen any serious press article press come to the same conclusions as the original poster about the C6 convertible ride or handling.
I don't buy that argument about the convertible actually - the last two generations of Corvette were designed as convertibles first - all the structurals are the same between the two.
Agreed with the statement about the press. Jerkiness due to body-throttling torque is a rare thing... something that isn't in abundance in many vehicles - even motorcycles. I still think perhaps the OP's wife was reacting to dynamics that had nothing to do with build quality.
12-21-2006 | 09:30 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by 300TTto545' post='369923' date='Dec 21 2006, 09:39 AM
Americans take corners slowly ...
Great discussion, by the way.
12-21-2006 | 10:22 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by tachyon' post='369958' date='Dec 21 2006, 01:30 PM
That's it! That's the key difference: Americans take corners while European & UK drivers take curves. This difference shows up in the design philosophy. That's why we like driving European cars - because they are built to handle the fun part of the road.
A picture is worth a thousand words. So...
12-21-2006 | 12:21 PM
#47
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My first love was a '78 Chrysler New Yorker with a 440 ci engine, white leather etc. very loaded.
At that time my friend did drive a very nice Olds Cutlass with a 350 ci (maybe a 73?)
We did race some, but he never won
When I moved back to hell, as in Finland, I bought myself a MoPar 66' Fury I with a 318 cid "solid steel engine".
After that I had a Chevy pick-up and some Buicks, a very nice 73' Electra 225 with 455 engine and loaded...
I still miss the big, fluffy, comfy Detroit monsters!
At that time my friend did drive a very nice Olds Cutlass with a 350 ci (maybe a 73?)
We did race some, but he never won
When I moved back to hell, as in Finland, I bought myself a MoPar 66' Fury I with a 318 cid "solid steel engine".
After that I had a Chevy pick-up and some Buicks, a very nice 73' Electra 225 with 455 engine and loaded...
I still miss the big, fluffy, comfy Detroit monsters!
12-21-2006 | 01:48 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by KAF' post='369984' date='Dec 21 2006, 07:36 PM
Are you saying the Yanks pose with cars whilst Euro's drive them ?? 
12-21-2006 | 07:01 PM
#49
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Lovely, another Europe v US thread!
C'mon, we've covered most points over the years here:
- Driving vs. riding
- Toy vs. tool
- Handling vs. space
- High milers vs. garage queens
Truth is, most people participating on this forum know that the main reason to buy a 5 is the handling at high speeds, in a package that is representable in business as well as in private life.
It never ceases to amuse when every now and then someone surfaces that bought the thing for the badge, gets disappointed and starts to defend american barges.
Horses for courses mate, you picked the wrong horse.
BTW, I love that quote about being the most sophisticated and getting spit on. Cause and effect I'd say..
C'mon, we've covered most points over the years here:
- Driving vs. riding
- Toy vs. tool
- Handling vs. space
- High milers vs. garage queens
Truth is, most people participating on this forum know that the main reason to buy a 5 is the handling at high speeds, in a package that is representable in business as well as in private life.
It never ceases to amuse when every now and then someone surfaces that bought the thing for the badge, gets disappointed and starts to defend american barges.
Horses for courses mate, you picked the wrong horse.
BTW, I love that quote about being the most sophisticated and getting spit on. Cause and effect I'd say..
12-21-2006 | 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ImolaRedM' post='369586' date='Dec 21 2006, 03:30 AM
I with you on that one. I would be interested in the Tesla but that's not a major player. I can't even think of a Truck or SUV I would want that is an American mark. Land Rover Defender, MB G500, or Unimog (scale from small to large) would be my choice.