Iceman

Over here the use of fog lights is ONLY allowed when the visibility is less than 50m - it's never allowed to use them in the citys.

Memotronic

Here in UAE everythig is possible any time .. so I can use fog light even at day time ka ka ka ... I think using fog light is so useful for me ... even when I suddenly see someting ahead of me and just want to wake sleepy drivers behind me .. I annoy them with my strong fog light ...... being bad sometinges is good to keep saving your rear from expected hit from sleepy or unwary drivers...

one disadvantage of Brake Force is ... lights are on only when you apply hard brake and it is not your choice when to switch on Brake Fore light !

EBMCS03

Brake force lights should be a little more sensitive... and not just at ABS... many times here on the freeway in the states traffic stops quite suddenly and quick too but not quick enough to activate ABS... but drives behind arent paying enough attention... so it should turn on wiht like a certain pressure applied to the brakes when the car is moving....


See now I and some better drivers on the road use the Hazzard flasher during more aggressive stops on the freeway to warn drivers behind.

das

This is a little off-topic, but since the question of fog lights came up again, I'll weigh in:

Yes, the US has never specified rear fog lights, though some vehicles do come with them in the US - some on one side only, some on both sides. It's a great idea in heavy fog, heavy rain, or other low visibility conditions.

With regard to front-facing fog lights: some states have in the past, and currently do have, regulations regarding when and how "fog", "driving", offroad, or other front facing lamps may be used on a vehicle. Most jurisdictions consider any white/clear front-facing lamp at a particular height, of a particular luminance, and of a particular illumination pattern to be legally acceptable under any circumstances.

Since the other fog light thread, and after several other heated fog light discussions over the years in other forums and on USENET, I've paid close attention to "fog lights" on vehicles. I must strongly disagree that properly configured and aimed fog lights are unsafe for other drivers. On almost every vehicle I examine, the fog lights appear no brighter or more intense than the headlamps, with very, very few exceptions (usually Pontiac vehicles, or vehicles set higher off the ground). With BMWs specifically, I fail to see how anyone can argue that the fog lights are significantly brighter than the headlights, in the context of appearance to other drivers on the road, or, brighter to the point where they would be uncomfortable for other drivers.

There is a very arrogant attitude among some people that if you drive with the "fog" lights on when there is no fog, that somehow means you're unsafe, ignorant, or trying to look "cool", when the people who are really "in the know" think that it's "uncool". This is all ridiculous. I quite enjoy the light that is cast by foglights to the SIDES of the vehicle and down directly in front of the vehicle, even in clear conditions. In fact, the very beam pattern of foglights - further DOWN than headlamps, having a shorter reach than headlamps, and a lower angle than headlamps - alone in itself proves that they are not a danger or safety hazard to approaching drivers. A properly aimed and configured fog lamp with the correct wattage bulb will NOT be "too bright", and anyone who says that fog lights on another vehicle were so bright that it caused them to get into an accident is, quite frankly, lying through their teeth OR did not witness normal and/or properly configured fog lamps.

In jurisdictions where it is LEGAL to use "fog lamps", there is NOTHING WRONG with using fog lamps even in clear driving conditions:

- They cast more light directly in front of the vehicle
- They cast more light to the sides of the vehicle, e.g., shoulders/curbs and lane markings
- They DO NOT and SHOULD NOT appear brighter or more luminous than headlamps to approaching drivers

That said, SOME vehicles have fog lamps that do not meet the above requirements, and are designed, in fact, more like auxiliary driving lamps than fog lamps, casting a long and narrow beam, and, if improperly aimed, have the potential to have a blinding glare effect on oncoming drivers. Note that I DO NOT condone using any lamps in such a way as to pose any safety hazard to either the driver, or other vehicles on the road, but properly configured fog lamps do not fall into this category, especially every OEM lamp I've seen on every BMW I've ever seen at night.

Iceman

Way to go. That'S what we do over here in Germany all the time. Nobody uses the rear fog light - hazzards are easier to find and signal the following driver that there is an emergency brake in progress.




das, I totally disagree!
First off all, I am not bothered by them, I have very good eyes and know how to avoid looking into other cars lights.
BUT...
There are stats about this, and a lot of accidents happened because of foglights.

They do NOT give the driver more vision. They light up an area where you can only see the rabbit right before you hit him. They do NOT help AT ALL in regular conditions.

Because the foglights are closer to the street, there is waaay more reflection right in front of the car, what makes it brighter for oncoming traffic. If the street is wet, it's even worse.

And finally... There is no difference in those foglights in between Europe and the USA - the only difference is, that a lot of US drivers seem to think they need to have all possible lights on all the time to be safer.


Again, I am not bothered by them, but a lot of people are!!

Everybody driving a vehicle should respect other people out there and accept, that some others out there are not good drivers like you are. Help them, and keep your finger off the foglight switch!

das

I do not drive routinely with the fog lights on. However, when I am on a remote road or two lane country roads where there is no street lighting, I do use them, because I find it illuminates the lane markings much more to my liking than the headlights alone. For me, there is a qualitative difference in near-vehicle and side-vehicle visibility with the fog lights turned on. In the city and around town, they are indeed completely and utterly unnecessary.

They won't help you avoid any collisions; they're aimed at such a low angle that, as you say, you may only see the rabbit moments before it's under your front tire.

Additionally, drivers should use the same mechanisms for avoiding glare (i.e., not staring at or around the lamps of oncoming cars) under all conditions.

I have no problem believing that people claim fog lights "caused" an accident. But a properly aimed fog lamp that meets US DOT requirements for beam characteristics, luminance, angles, etc., should and in fact does not cause additional glare for oncoming drivers. Note that I am only speaking for US law, and many US vehicles (as I said, GM (usually Pontiac) and some DaimlerChrysler products) do have annoyingly bright fog lamps. I would urge you to examine the light patterns of E60 (or E39 and E34, for that matter) fog lights from the perspective of an oncoming driver. In my own tests, I find nothing that would lead me to believe that the fog lights should cause any undue glare, stress, or annoyance to an oncoming driver (except, perhaps, to someone who is irked to no end by me having fog lights on ).

On the other hand, you can make claims about accident statistics caused by headlamps, or merely by another vehicle being present. It's all about maximizing safety without decreasing utility (too much).

That said, I don't think this should be a such a religious issue. If it is legal for someone to drive with properly aimed fog lights on in a particular jurisdiction, it's really no one's business to tell them that it's "stupid", or that they're ignorant for doing it, or that they're doing it to "look cool" when it really doesn't. The legality argument is critical and central to my point: there is a body of sophisticated traffic law in the US and in the US states, much of which deals with lighting. Some vehicles are more troublesome than others; e.g., even the standard headlamps on some SUVs. Should that vehicle, then, only be allowed daytime use?

I think this is one of those things people simply won't agree on. I have no problems with people operating vehicles within the bounds of the law in their respective countries. There's a good number of people who think that you're a "poser" if you add angel eyes to a pre-2001 E39 (as I did). Why? Why is it ok to have them on a 2001+ E39, but not on a >2001? Then again, some people think it's cool to have blue or green front and rear turn signals, or take a 525 and put fake M5 badges on the back of it. Now, some might say that a fake M5 badge isn't a safety issue. No, it's not. Just a taste issue. Blue turn signals? Illegal, and now we're getting into shaky safety territory. Using properly aimed clear/white front-facing lights that are legal in your jurisdiction for on-road use? I'm sorry, but I just can't see any problem with that.

But I think we can agree to disagree.

Iceman

We have to agree to disagree.

The fact that the DOT has not yet declared them illegal to use without heavy fog does not make it right. It IS a FACT that it causes more glare - and that is why it is illegal in some other countrys, like Germany, to use them without heavy fog (visibility less than 50 metres).

Legal and illegal...
Speeding is illegal too - and who gives a f*ck...

pinguhk

Not in HK never used them to do that.
only used them for fog or hevey rain about 4 times in 2 years

ImolaRedM

I would use it if I had it. There are times I really need it in the 5er. Tried to get it on the E39 but after failing I didn't give it much of a try in the E60. I use it when needed in my Land Rover Discovery.

Uk525i

Fog lights are fine in fog.. only.
In normal conditions, or rain, I think rear fogs add to the danger, when following a car with them on, it is not easy to see their brake lights, so makes a collision more likely. People who use front foglights all the time have no consideration for other road users, Uk police issue on the spot fines for this.
I've noticed more & more cars with sidelights & fogs on, usually the same oiks who park in disabled bays to rush to the shops!, bring back the stocks!!.