grogan545

Great runs g-man. And, you are very welcome. You will get below 4; I am very confident. I don't think my problem is electrical--as my lights virtually always have been on, and the problem was present upon leaving my dealer after 20.01.00 was installed.

I have an appointment on Tuesday to remove my B&B and throttle body. I want to compare back to stock--especially the HP numbers. Also, for performance reasons and because of the B&B, I have been driving only in DS--using a combination of manual and automatic shifting. Now, that my car is faster in D I want to drive in D. Doing so is a problem because the B&B creates resonance at low RPM in sixth gear, and the tranny shifts to sixth very soon. So, to drive in D and to not be fiddling with the lever too much, I am swapping mufflers. I'll be selling at least the throttle body.

Again, great numbers. Go for 4.
[/quote]

Thanks again Znod I am sure I will soon get some under 5 sec runs.I forgot to mention in my previous post that I did reset my GT2 for 12" rollout,4150#,and 6.5 CD.I don't attribute my good times to these changes.It is strickly due to the new method(controls on in D).When I get the start just right it's like a rocket all the way through first gear.I have always had good times after 40 mph even with poor starts.The weight change has increased my horsepower readings.

After analyzing the HP #'s I realized that the peak HP is usually about 57mph.If I calculate the rpm's in Second gear this equates close to the BMW HP peak of 6100 rpm.

I did check the speeds where my car starts to shift.First at 29 mph,second at 60mph.Slightley different then yours but you have shorter tires.

After looking at your latest #'s I agree it is a reduction in HP.Your times up to 30 and your 60' times are as good as ever.Horsepower is not as critical as traction at low speeds,but after 30 your times are slower than previous.I think you are wise to go back to stock condition.There is a reason for your loss of power and I believe you will find it.Don't give up and don't get discouraged.It may be something as stupid as 20.01 not liking the throttle body.Since they redid your engine mgmt program i don't think that was the problem and my times prove it is not an inherent problem in 20.01.

With your car back to stock it will be a good starting point.My car is stock and I never have been a believer in some cars of the same make & model being significantly faster than another.There is always a reason why one car performs better than another.With all parameters being equal they will perform equal.

Keep the faith and keep me informed.

znod

Hi g-man. I want to comment more on some of the things you said, but am too tired right now. Thanks for your encourgement. But, briefly, yes, back to stock for the reasons mentioned. I was thinking exactly the same thing about 20.01.00 maybe not liking the muffler or the throttle body. And, I want to make the comparison of stock and not. I think I am going to have some interesting data soon developed using the new meter--about shifting. Thanks for checking out your shit points.

cobradav

Hi g-man. I want to comment more on some of the things you said, but am too tired right now. Thanks for your encourgement. But, briefly, yes, back to stock for the reasons mentioned. I was thinking exactly the same thing about 20.01.00 maybe not liking the muffler or the throttle body. And, I want to make the comparison of stock and not. I think I am going to have some interesting data soon developed using the new meter--about shifting. Thanks for checking out your shit points.
[/quote]
Yes , you are tired or mad at your car

znod

Yes , you are tired or mad at your car
[/quote] I have made that mistake before, but, as far as I know, I've always caught it. It does seem a bit appropriate given that the problem may very well be reated to shift points. I'll be posting some data from the Pro RR this morning. I like its data acquisition/download/export spreadsheet features very well. And, the multiple car feature is very convenient. All in all, I still think the GT2 is better for the casual user though. Much more later I am sure.

grogan545

Yes , you are tired or mad at your car
[/quote] I have made that mistake before, but, as far as I know, I've always caught it. It does seem a bit appropriate given that the problem may very well be reated to shift points. I'll be posting some data from the Pro RR this morning. I like its data acquisition/download/export spreadsheet features very well. And, the multiple car feature is very convenient. All in all, I still think the GT2 is better for the casual user though. Much more later I am sure.
[/quote]

Probably a Fruedian slip Znod.

All testing on hold for me .We are getting a foot of snow tomorrow.It will probably be 2 weeks before the roads are suitable again.

znod

I am a little happier with it now. I am not going to mention them now, but you and I are going to have some interesting intra-Pro RR results to reconcile.

But, anyway, here are my first Pro RR results mixed with the GT2 results. My reason for going out this morning was to see how comparable the meters' results look. I am very pleased with their comparability. Note that there is no way that I yet know of to make the Pro RR and GT2 HP results comparable. The important new data I was able to discern using the Pro RR is my car's shift points, but herein is where cd and I will need to do some reconciliation.

I now have a new best 0-60 of 5.30. It's not 5.07, but maybe things are looking up. Note that the shift data given below imply that at least my Step's shifting may be affecting my 0-30 and 0-60 times.

The other thing of great interest to me is my 1/8 and 1/4 mile speeds. These speeds, from the GT2, always seemed too low given grogan's speeds and they became worse after 20.01.00. But, today's results are very respectable. I am feeling somewhat better, but, in this regard, I have to hope that my GT2 is a little retarded in dealing with speed.

Without futher ado:

Key:

NS = New Strip
N/S= North/South
D = D Mode
G = GT2
P = Rro RR

After Dealer........................NS/S/D/G...NS/N/D/G.....D........NS/S/D/P...NS/N//D/P
..........................Test 1.........Test 2........Test 3....Test 5.......Test 6.........Test 7.....Average
1/4 Mile Time.........................13.90.........13.93.. .................13.774........13.882......13.872
1/8 Mile Time........9.00............8.98...........9.03... ....8.98........8.940.........8.999........8.988
0-100....................................13.60...... ................13.50......12.996........13.355... ...13.363
0-90......................................10.92..... .................10.98......10.566........10.821.. ....10.822
0-80......................8.92...........8.92....... ...9.00........8.95........8.698.........8.874.... ....8.894
0-70......................7.17...........7.15....... ...7.25........7.15........7.000.........7.123.... ....7.141
0-60......................5.43...........5.47....... ...5.45........5.45........5.300.........5.384.... ....5.414
0-50......................4.10...........4.07....... ...4.15........4.07........4.039.........4.091.... ....4.087
0-40......................2.98...........2.92....... ...3.00........2.95........2.941.........2.980.... ....2.962
0-30......................1.80...........1.75....... ...1.80........1.75........1.766.........1.808.... ....1.779
0-20......................1.02...........0.95....... ...1.00........1.00........1.005.........1.035.... ....1.002
0-10......................0.35...........0.22....... ...0.28........0.32........0.318.........0.327.... ....0.303
1,000 Feet.............................11.63............ ...........11.70......11.565.......11.649.......11 .636
330 Feet................5.85...........5.80..........5 .85........5.82.........5.828........5.865........ .5.836
60 Feet..................2.03...........1.95......... .2.00........2.00.........2.046........2.068...... ..2.016
1/8 Mile Time.........9.00...........8.98..........9.03.... ....8.98.........8.940........8.999........8.988
1/8 Mile Speed....78.90.........78.70........78.60......78. 70........81.460......80.740......79.517
1/4 Mile Time.........................13.90........13.93... ...................13.774......13.882......13.872
1/4 Mile Speed.......................99.10......100.80..... ...............102.290....101.700....100.973
HP @ Speed......324@57.......316@57.....315@57...316@56 ..................................318@56.75
HP @ RPM............................................... ....................235.1@5.79k..225.7 @ 5.69k...230.4 @ 5.74k
Torque @ RPM............................................... .............250.7 @ 4.48k..243.3 @ 4.49k..247 @ 4.485k
Ave HP................269.00.......263.00......261.00. ....265.00....................................264. 500
Shift Points:*
1st to 2nd--
RPM............................................... .........................................6,264.... ...6,220
Time.............................................. ........................................1.770s.... .1.704s
Speed............................................. .......................................30.130..... 28.770
2nd to 3rd--
RPM............................................... ..........................................6,216... ...6,240
Time.............................................. ..........................................5.266... ...5.299
Speed............................................. ........................................59.840.... 59.470
3rd to 4th--
RPM............................................... ..........................................6,224... ...6,212
Time.............................................. .......................................11.839s...1 1.912s
Speed............................................. .......................................95.370..... 94.320

*Note that both HP and torque decrease immediately after these shiftpoints. Thus, the RPM, etc., values occur right before the drop to the next lower gear.

znod

Darn. You need something test-related to do. Get your meter and do a zero to sixty or zero to thrity before the snow--preferrably the former. Then, you can practice reading your meter, downloading to your computer, and exporting data to a spreadsheet. Most importantly, you can help me solve the problem described below.

OK, by now, you've seen my latest test-data post--with some Pro RR data mixed with GT2 data. I obtained the Pro RR data as follows:

1. The obvious things--obtained from the G-Meter/Computer Screen (No problem)
2. Things not available from the Computer Screen--obtained from the meter, itself (e.g., 0-10). (No problem)
3. RPM at shift--from the meter again.

The problem here is that one can different views of what is correct. For example, one can use:

A. The meter alone. Here all data are read one way or another from the meter.

B. The meter/exported spreadsheet--version i. In this case, all data are read from the meter with the exception of RPM. RPM data are read from the line in the exported spreadsheet showing the meter values for time to speed.

C. The meter/exported spreadsheed--version ii. Maximum RPM data are obtained from the meter, and then time and distance are read from the exported spreedsheet.

These alternatives yield columns A, B, and C:

................................A.............B... .........C
Shift Points:
1st to 2nd--
RPM........................6,264......5,358......6 ,264
Time.......................1.77s.......1.77s...... 2.350
Speed......... ..........30.130.....30.130....35.090
2nd to 3rd--
RPM.......................6,216.......6,090......6 ,216
Time.....................5.266s.....5.266s.....5.5 30s
Speed..................59.840......59.840....61.16 0
3rd to 4th--
RPM.......................6,224.......5,147......6 ,224
Time...................11.839s....11.839s......11. 4s
Speed..................95.370......95.370....93.74 0

I took column A to be the more accurate. But, no matter how you look at things there are inconsistencies--which I definitely did not expect to find. The data for the shift from 2nd to 3rd are the most consistent. However, they present a problem because, among other things, you can't tell if the shift ends before or after 60 MPH. And, the data for the shift from 1st to 2nd exhibit a large RPM discrepancy. Finally, the data for the 3rd to 4th shift reveal a large RPM discrepancy as well as illogical values for time and speed in column C.

Any thoughts? grogan??? Enjoy solving the problem. Unfortunately, I think its a meter problem, although .... I'll get back to you on this thought.

cobradav

Darn. You need something test-related to do. Get your meter and do a zero to sixty or zero to thrity before the snow--preferrably the former. Then, you can practice reading your meter, downloading to your computer, and exporting data to a spreadsheet. Most importantly, you can help me solve the problem described below.

OK, by now, you've seen my latest test-data post--with some Pro RR data mixed with GT2 data. I obtained the Pro RR data as follows:

1. The obvious things--obtained from the G-Meter/Computer Screen (No problem)
2. Things not available from the Computer Screen--obtained from the meter, itself (e.g., 0-10). (No problem)
3. RPM at shift--from the meter again.

The problem here is that one can different views of what is correct. For example, one can use:

A. The meter alone. Here all data are read one way or another from the meter.

B. The meter/exported spreadsheet--version i. In this case, all data are read from the meter with the exception of RPM. RPM data are read from the line in the exported spreadsheet showing the meter values for time to speed.

C. The meter/exported spreadsheed--version ii. Maximum RPM data are obtained from the meter, and then time and distance are read from the exported spreedsheet.

These alternatives yield columns A, B, and C:

................................A.............B... .........C
Shift Points:
1st to 2nd--
RPM........................6,264......5,358......6 ,264
Time.......................1.77s.......1.77s...... 2.350
Speed......... ..........30.130.....30.130....35.090
2nd to 3rd--
RPM.......................6,216.......6,090......6 ,216
Time.....................5.266s.....5.266s.....5.5 30s
Speed..................59.840......59.840....61.16 0
3rd to 4th--
RPM.......................6,224.......5,147......6 ,224
Time...................11.839s....11.839s......11. 4s
Speed..................95.370......95.370....93.74 0

I took column A to be the more accurate. But, no matter how you look at things there are inconsistencies--which I definitely did not expect to find. The data for the shift from 2nd to 3rd are the most consistent. However, they present a problem because, among other things, you can't tell if the shift ends before or after 60 MPH. And, the data for the shift from 1st to 2nd exhibit a large RPM discrepancy. Finally, the data for the 3rd to 4th shift reveal a large RPM discrepancy as well as illogical values for time and speed in column C.

Any thoughts? grogan??? Enjoy solving the problem. Unfortunately, I think its a meter problem, although .... I'll get back to you on this thought.
[/quote]

Couple of things - Well run 2 is an obvious out lyer and just maybe should be discarded; BMWs supposedly are difficult to pick up RPM (reported on their forum) which may contribute to this. Gtech recommends trying to turn on some electrical devices to help in this regard such as the fan, headlights, etc.

Do you think the RPMs were correct on runs 1 and 3? Did your calibrated eye agree? If not Gtech suggests using higher RPM for the cal mode.

I am beat after doing about 4 hours of deck washing and more to do tomorrow. But I WILL get some runs in tomorrow, I WILL get some runs in tomorrow, I WILL get some runs in tomorrow.

Bokke

znod - did your 2nd worst 60 foot time produce your best 0-60 time? How do you explain that?

I am hoping to try some runs tomorrow.....

grogan545

Darn. You need something test-related to do. Get your meter and do a zero to sixty or zero to thrity before the snow--preferrably the former. Then, you can practice reading your meter, downloading to your computer, and exporting data to a spreadsheet. Most importantly, you can help me solve the problem described below.

OK, by now, you've seen my latest test-data post--with some Pro RR data mixed with GT2 data. I obtained the Pro RR data as follows:

1. The obvious things--obtained from the G-Meter/Computer Screen (No problem)
2. Things not available from the Computer Screen--obtained from the meter, itself (e.g., 0-10). (No problem)
3. RPM at shift--from the meter again.

The problem here is that one can different views of what is correct. For example, one can use:

A. The meter alone. Here all data are read one way or another from the meter.

B. The meter/exported spreadsheet--version i. In this case, all data are read from the meter with the exception of RPM. RPM data are read from the line in the exported spreadsheet showing the meter values for time to speed.

C. The meter/exported spreadsheed--version ii. Maximum RPM data are obtained from the meter, and then time and distance are read from the exported spreedsheet.

These alternatives yield columns A, B, and C:

................................A.............B... .........C
Shift Points:
1st to 2nd--
RPM........................6,264......5,358......6 ,264
Time.......................1.77s.......1.77s...... 2.350
Speed......... ..........30.130.....30.130....35.090
2nd to 3rd--
RPM.......................6,216.......6,090......6 ,216
Time.....................5.266s.....5.266s.....5.5 30s
Speed..................59.840......59.840....61.16 0
3rd to 4th--
RPM.......................6,224.......5,147......6 ,224
Time...................11.839s....11.839s......11. 4s
Speed..................95.370......95.370....93.74 0

I took column A to be the more accurate. But, no matter how you look at things there are inconsistencies--which I definitely did not expect to find. The data for the shift from 2nd to 3rd are the most consistent. However, they present a problem because, among other things, you can't tell if the shift ends before or after 60 MPH. And, the data for the shift from 1st to 2nd exhibit a large RPM discrepancy. Finally, the data for the 3rd to 4th shift reveal a large RPM discrepancy as well as illogical values for time and speed in column C.

Any thoughts? grogan??? Enjoy solving the problem. Unfortunately, I think its a meter problem, although .... I'll get back to you on this thought.
[/quote]

Well Znod your mood seems to have improved as well as your times.You have some very interesting data from the Pro RR.I haven't spent a lot of time digesting all the data but here are my initial thoughts:

1-It apears your GT2 has been giving you slower times and especially slower speeds after 40 mph.This accounts for some of the differences in our compared times when your car was running well.Times up to 40 seem very close to the Pro RR.

2-Looking at your shift mph/rpm it is apparant that some of the data is not correct with the Pro RR.I agree with you that column A looks like the most correct.You can corraborate all data in column A in either B or C at every point.

3-As we discussed earlier your car may be shifting to second before 60 mph which will slow your 0-60 time.I think the Pro RR verifies that.Your 0-30 times are all in first gear.

4-Due to the difference in tire size between our cars using the same rpm as you noted in column A my speed would be 60.30 mph with the shift from 2 to 3.The best possible senario for good 0-60 time.

I am still trying to justify in my mind how my car with controls on and in D is faster than all my skills(HA HA)and experience can muster.Of course I got to thinking earlier when I said that that drag racers now believe that 0 wheelspin is the fast way down a 1/4 mile.I could never get 0 wheelspin with controls off.With a lot of practice and patience with the controls on I think is the best way to go.If it works for my car it must be possible with others as well.When you get the start right with this method you can feel the difference.I am sure I wil go under 5 sec's with this method in fact I think I already have.

Are you still going to remove your exhaust & throttle body next week?I think it is a good idea,you have to start somewhere.Good luck and keep us informed.