Bokke

The weather is supposed to be lousy! But if the opportunity is there, I will do so....

Cheers,

grogan545

You are getting very consistant results Zman,just not as fast as previous to 20.01.It is generaly agreed in drag racing circles that terminal speed in the 1/4 mile is a good indicator of horsepower.You can have terrible starts,spin the tires,bog down,or start in second gear but your speed at the end of 1/4 will not vary unless your horsepower varies.Based on this theory it appears that removing the modds did not reduce your horsepower.Your speeds are still more than 102 mph,same as before removing mods.

This still doesn't shed any light on your slower times since we don't have any good data on your 1/4 speeds with 19.01.But since you notice very little wheelspin now it appears you have less power available at the start than previously.I think you must either verify or eliminate the possibility of your DTC/DTS causing the problem.This would tell you if your engine has lost power overall or just is being reduced because of controls.Your dealer already redid the engine map.Can they redo 20.01 or do they have to wait for the next version to be available?

I think with my car even if I lost 50 hp I could still have uncontrolled wheelspin if I just floored it.This leads me to believe your traction controls are the problem,I just don't know how you can solve this except with redoing the software, preferably with a newer version.

znod

Thanks for the thoughtful post, my friend. And, funny, I am right back where I started--with the idea that DSC/DTC is the problem. It seems clear to me that I am losing out at the start. My starts are much less fierce than they used to be. And, yes, I will try the next update unless something changes dramatically. There still is a chance that my car has some post-dealer reset/post-mods off learning to do.

m630

....perhaps once the weather warms up and i take my snow shoes off, we dont have the 900 days in row of great weather like you do!! has it rained yet by you??? ...also, im traveling alot for work right now, i've been over in London for weeks now, and also did some traveling in amsterdam recently, and then im back to nyc tonite for a week and then off again...but by April-May i should be back home steady and i'll put my 19"s back on and then maybe i'll look to verify cds numbers and show how quick our 6ers are

znod

Great, we'd like to see your data when the thaw occurs. And, no, it has not rained here is a record number of days. The old record now has been beated by a large amount, but I can't recall what the new record is.

DD694

Might I suggest that the "bucket of water" test would help you answer your question about DSC/DTC interference? If it will resolve this issue in a matter of minutes, it would be worth the minor inconveniece of a car wash afterward.

znod

I appreciate your input. Why do you think that it will resolve the issue? Here is my problem with the theory. Suppose my torque is down at the start because of DSC/DTC--i.e., by an amount that is sufficient to account for my performance difference through the 1/4. It seems to me that my car still might spin madly through water even though DSC/DTC is "off," but still is affecting my car through some sort of residual functioning.

In other words, I am not saying that DSC/DTC's actions are not reduced by being turned "off." I am saying that DSC/DTC may not be getting completely turned off. And, thus, being only partially off, the torque robbing effects of DSC/DTC might not be detectable via the water test.

Still, the water test would provide some sort of acid test. That is, it could imply that DSC/DTC is not being turned off at all--if no spin in water is possible. But, again, I don't think that not being turned off completely is the problem. In this regard, as mentioned earlier on the thread, I can get some tire spin on asphalt with DSC/DTC off. So, obviously, I would get some on water with DSC/DTC off.

Thus, it seems to me that SOP should provide a better test than the water test. And, SOP-wise, the car is down on HP at the start. Also, the best test I have--my meter testing--implies consistently, that torque is down at the start.

The issue, perhaps, is how to convince BMW/my dealer what the problem is without relying on test data. And, anyway, they could say, as they already have, that changes, good and bad, are the breaks one gets with software updates. And, there is no going backwards on updates--unless what 700700 says can be used legitimately. The only hope is that the next update will improve things--unless my car keeps learniing the ways of the 1/4.

grogan545

I agree with almost all that you say Zman.But the water test could reveal how much the controls are still affecting your power.If you get wild crazy wheelspin in the wet it could mean that your controls are really off,which makes the problem harder to identify.On the other hand if you get a lot of wheelspin initially but then it decreases without you letting off the throttle it would indictate they traction controls are still in effect.This could easily be demonstrated to your dealer as a "defect" rather than a loss of power.They may not be impressed with a "minor" decrease in performance but the incorrect function of a system should be something they should correct.

I know with my controls off I can get wild wheelspin in dry or wet conditions.However with controls on I get immediate & drastic action from the controls,especially in the wet.

I think 2 parameters are compromised with the traction controls.
1-A reduction in timing which reduces power
2-Braking of the spinning wheels to stop the spinning.
If only one of these parameters is being turned off you may note a condition such as you now have.

Again Zman if you can prove the problem is the traction controlsyou have a better chance of getting the dealer to correct it.

DD694

Without paging through the posts in this thread or others that preceded it, if my memory serves me (and these days that is not always the case) grogan545 made his best runs with DSC/DTC on. I think it is quite possible that your DSC/DTC may not be functioning normally for whatever reason. As grogan545 says, the water test might determine this. If it does not show that you can get wheel spin with water under your tires and DSC/DTC off, you could demonstrate this for your dealer. On the other hand, if the water test shows uncontrolled wheel spin with your DSC/DTC turned off, I guess is is back to the drawing board for an understanding of what is happening with your power plant.

grogan545

When are you going to join us in testing E60VTA? We really would like to see some numbers from a 550 for comparison to our 545's.Either the Passport GT2 or the Tesla Pro RR are good selections for test equipment.

You are correct I did have my best times with DSC/DTC on.I haven't had time to experiment recently,we had 17" snow and it will be a while until the roads are suitable.When I originally started testing(May 05) I tried some runs with controls on and had no success,but due to traction problems in the cold weather I decided to try again with the controls on.To my surprise I got great results.I think it is because I am more patient now and really concentrate on not getting into the throttle too quickley.I will experiment more when the weather is better and hope to get my 0-60 times under 5 sec's.Not bad for a completely stock 545.