znod

Right, the first used to be more or less true for me. And, the second always has been true for me.

I agree totally. And, if the water test turned out the "good" way, then a sound, non-meter/SOP way of demonstrating the problem would exist. But, I'm pessimistic. For example, a modest timing reduction would not be enough to prevent massive water-related wheel spin--I think?

Thanks for all of your thoughts on the issue. And, I did one run today. The major results were:

1/4 time......13.787
1/4 speed....102.71
1/8 time........8.940
1/8 speed....81.389
0-60.............5.300 (three 5.30's now--one before mods off)

No biggie here, but it is looking like my car is learning or the mods were hurting a tad. I'll have no way to sort this issue out unless my car starts performing a lot better. And, even then, there would be ambiguity, but I'd conclude that mods on/mods off was a draw. Did you see my thread on the "Parts, Mods, etc." discussion? Check it out; you probably would have something interesting to say.

znod

Thank you very much for thinking with up on the problem. And, right, the water test could provide what I referred to above as an "acid test."

Currently, g-man is getting his best times with DSC/DTC on and using D. But, before 20.01.00, we both got our bests with both off and using DS. Currently, my car still is better with DSC/DTC off and in DS. Grogan's results are hard to fathom since our cars should perform better with both off and in DS--unless one's wheel spin simply can't be controlled other than through DSC/DTC. Even then, you'd expect the best results to be in DS with one or both on since the most aggressive fuel map should be loaded at full throttle in DS. Go figure. And, thanks again--with all additional thoughts being greatly appreciated. Good thoughtful colleagues are great to have.

grogan545

I see slow progress Znod,every little bit helps.
I hope you do have a definite indication of traction control in the water test.If you get wild wheelspin I would doubt that the DTC/DSC is the problem.

I did see your thread in the "Parts Mods"section I will answer in that thread.

znod

If not, then all I can think of is that the wrong fuel map is being loaded. This scenario could be consistent with your car being faster in D.

znod

Finally some much better news (below)--even though the temp was 45 versus 50 this morning. In this regard, g-man, for some comparability, what have the temperatures been when you have been doing your post 20.01.00 testing?--particularly when you have obtained your better results? You may have said, but I can't recall right now.

As implied, I think the temperature probably affected my times positively today, but my impression is that my car is starting to get faster again--through learning, mods off, or whatever. Todays' results show, beyond general improvement, how important getting my 0-10 time down is (via the next software update perhaps???). In this regard, in all the comparative tests I have done, I have used modest brake torquing. Also, given, for example, my 0-60 times and my 1/8 speeds below, I am beginning to question the validity of my three 1/8 mile times of 8.71 as recorded via my GT2, although I do think that times in the 8.7's are possible. In this regard, my current 0-80 times shown below are better than those from my best four runs as recorded by my GT2 (8.72, 8.65, 8.65, and 8.67). On the other hand, on the same runs, my GT2 0-60 times were better (i.e., 5.14 5.07 5.22 5.07). (Below, N = north, S = south, DS = shift mode).

Mods Off..........S/DS.........S/DS........N/DS
Pro RR..........Test 13......Test 14.....Test 15.....Average
1/4 Speed....103.620.....102.910....103.350....103.080
1/8 Speed......82.450......81.870......82.170......82. 160
1/4 Time........13.629......13.744......13.702......13 .692
0-100............12.553......12.816......12.685..... ..12.685
0-90..............10.247.......10.456......10.360... ...10.354
1/8 Time..........8.853........8.936........8.914..... ...8.901
0-80................8.437........8.624........8.545. .......8.535
0-70................6.797........6.947........6.895. .......6.880
0-60................5.149........5.270........5.231. .......5.217
0-50................3.947........4.036........4.022. .......4.002
0-40................2.885........2.967........2.957. .......2.936
0-30................1.743........1.778........1.782. .......1.768
0-20................0.989........1.020........1.020. .......1.010
0-10................0.318........0.339........0.336. .......0.331

1/4 Mile Time.13.629.......13.744......13.702......13.692
1,000 Feet......11.447......11.547......11.515......11.5 03
1/8 Mile Time...8.853........8.936........8.914........8.90 1
330 Feet..........5.779........5.840........5.828..... ...5.816
60 Feet............2.034........2.064........2.061... .....2.053

g-man, I know you will be posting. I'll be tied up for much of the morning, but will get back to you later, of course.

grogan545

Looking much better Zman.Temp was about 32 deg on my latest runs.Certainly a help but I don't think by a large margin.Humidity has a much larger effect on performance.

I wouldn't question your previous 1/8 times.It appears your car is still more sluggish at the start now than previously.This would tend to hurt your times to distance more than your times to speed.The most important indicator is your 60' time.If you can get it below 2 sec you will see 1/8 times similar to your 19.01 times.This will also reduce your 1/4 times to the 13.40's.Remember my previous observation about speed(horsepower dependent)so I would't look for much speed improvement in the 1/4.Whatever is happening at the start does't seem to affect your power once you are past 30 mph.I am sure you will soon be posting times similar to or better than with 19.01.

Just curious but can you use both the Pro RR & the GT2 on the same run?This would verify if there is any diff between them.

Bokke

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. Would be interesting if you can do it.

Znod - nice improvement. Perhaps "learning" is a key....

We have 28F and rain, so nothing for me today.....

znod

I can use them at the same time with an extension cord. I probably will try that some day. Right now the GT2 is at Escort getting a tune up--just to make sure it is up to Escort's specs.

znod

It does look like learning is occurring. I am hoping that it will continue. As mentioned several times before, my car was not exceptionally fast when I started testing, but at some point it began improving rapidly.

grogan545

Is it possible that the mods on your car were hampering the learning?It seems that your car has always been a "slow learner".Maybe the ECU didn't recognize or like the mods.I have only noticed minor learning after updates on my car,usually only related to the way it shifts.