545i Vs 535d
03-30-2006, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Znod' post='262659' date='Mar 30 2006, 11:40 PM
14.1 is only one data point. Our other 535d data points either are much slower than 14.1 in the 1/4 or imply much slower times. I am hard pressed to accept the most favorable data point for the 535d rather than what the preponderance of the evidence implies. I will need a great deal more evidence pointing at 14.1 for a stock 535d before I can accept anything close to 14.1 You are a speed guy. Why not buy a meter and provide us with some additional data?
I just searched dragtimes.com and they came up with this:
http://www.dragtimes.com/compare2.php?make...Name=Compare%21
As i said 0.3-0.4 difference. I can't find more infos where i'm certain i saw 535d performing also 14.1 seconds or so, but as soon as i find i'll post.
03-30-2006, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' post='262666' date='Mar 30 2006, 03:52 PM
I don't know from where...or if i find such a thing here. Link me to some stuff to know at least what should i look for.
I just searched dragtimes.com and they came up with this:
http://www.dragtimes.com/compare2.php?make...Name=Compare%21
As i said 0.3-0.4 difference. I can't find more infos where i'm certain i saw 535d performing also 14.1 seconds or so, but as soon as i find i'll post.
I just searched dragtimes.com and they came up with this:
http://www.dragtimes.com/compare2.php?make...Name=Compare%21
As i said 0.3-0.4 difference. I can't find more infos where i'm certain i saw 535d performing also 14.1 seconds or so, but as soon as i find i'll post.
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03-30-2006, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Znod' post='262650' date='Mar 30 2006, 03:26 PM
I am not referring to my stats or those of anyone else. You still are ignoring the Step gear ratios versus those of the manual/SMG. The Step's are much more favorable for straight-line performance. Again, please read the thread I linked above to the point where we discuss gearing. Also, as mentioned, the Step's losses are not that much greater than those of the manual/SMG--with the latter two being much harder to obtain optimal performance from. Why not buy a meter and join us in testing? We'd love to have some Step results. And, BMW is wrong. Among other things, BMW has a vested interest in claiming that SMG's are as fast as manuals and are faster than Steps. Note that BMW seldomly gets the numbers right regardless of the car.
My previous Steptronic cars had great transmissions, very responsive and they even downshifted going into turns. I have an SMG car and its not hard to do a run, you just disable the traction control and floor it, thats the same as doing a run with my previous two Steptronic cars that I have previously had.
03-30-2006, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by pennetta' post='262682' date='Mar 30 2006, 04:17 PM
I want to stop debating the Step vs SMG speed times,
When?
but don't you think if the new M5 or M3 would be faster with a Steptronic that they would have one? Do you see Formula/Indy/Nascar or any race car coming equipted with a Slushbox? They would if it would make them faster.
Yes, at least if they would hold up well enough.
My previous Steptronic cars had great transmissions, very responsive and they even downshifted going into turns. I have an SMG car and its not hard to do a run, you just disable the traction control and floor it, thats the same as doing a run with my previous two Steptronic cars that I have previously had.
If you do not use AA or LC, then you are not getting the most from an SMG--except maybe if one has the US crippled version of LC. Those reporting on attempts to use AA on the 545i have not been able to do so effectively/consistently. And, using your procedure you can't even brake torque--which one can do with a Step.
When?
but don't you think if the new M5 or M3 would be faster with a Steptronic that they would have one? Do you see Formula/Indy/Nascar or any race car coming equipted with a Slushbox? They would if it would make them faster.
Yes, at least if they would hold up well enough.
My previous Steptronic cars had great transmissions, very responsive and they even downshifted going into turns. I have an SMG car and its not hard to do a run, you just disable the traction control and floor it, thats the same as doing a run with my previous two Steptronic cars that I have previously had.
If you do not use AA or LC, then you are not getting the most from an SMG--except maybe if one has the US crippled version of LC. Those reporting on attempts to use AA on the 545i have not been able to do so effectively/consistently. And, using your procedure you can't even brake torque--which one can do with a Step.
03-30-2006, 01:04 PM
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So your saying if automatics were stronger the M5 and M3 would be automatics...??????
Just so you know, if you disable traction/DSC and you floor the car, AA or LC automatically is engaged.
Brake torqueing an auto is used to get the engines RPMs up into the power band so you have more power when you launch. Trying or wishing to do that with a SMG is redundant as it does that already with AA or LC ay around 4000 RPM.
And your first point of when?............Now.
Just so you know, if you disable traction/DSC and you floor the car, AA or LC automatically is engaged.
Brake torqueing an auto is used to get the engines RPMs up into the power band so you have more power when you launch. Trying or wishing to do that with a SMG is redundant as it does that already with AA or LC ay around 4000 RPM.
And your first point of when?............Now.
03-30-2006, 01:11 PM
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I have been away for a while but not that long! Come on guys this is one long thread. Just to make it a bit longer...
I have a test from a German mag somewhere (will try to dig it up) where they compare 535d and 545 the former was quicker to 140 km/h if I remember correctly. It also posted better lap time. There you have it, 535d is the doggs.
I have a test from a German mag somewhere (will try to dig it up) where they compare 535d and 545 the former was quicker to 140 km/h if I remember correctly. It also posted better lap time. There you have it, 535d is the doggs.
03-30-2006, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by pennetta' post='262708' date='Mar 30 2006, 05:04 PM
So your saying if automatics were stronger the M5 and M3 would be automatics...??????
I was just agreeing with you. You said: "They would if it would make them faster." So, I said "yes, if they would hold up.
Just so you know, if you disable traction/DSC and you floor the car, AA or LC automatically is engaged.
You have an SMG. You should know. Thanks.
Brake torqueing an auto is used to get the engines RPMs up into the power band so you have more power when you launch. Trying or wishing to do that with a SMG is redundant as it does that already with AA or LC ay around 4000 RPM.
That's all true. Why not get a meter and show us what an SMG 545i can do. The manual did not fare too well in the magazine tests. BMW says that manuals are faster than Steps too.
And your first point of when?............Now.
Good. Did you ever read what I mentioned about the gearing of the Step versus the manual/SMG?
I was just agreeing with you. You said: "They would if it would make them faster." So, I said "yes, if they would hold up.
Just so you know, if you disable traction/DSC and you floor the car, AA or LC automatically is engaged.
You have an SMG. You should know. Thanks.
Brake torqueing an auto is used to get the engines RPMs up into the power band so you have more power when you launch. Trying or wishing to do that with a SMG is redundant as it does that already with AA or LC ay around 4000 RPM.
That's all true. Why not get a meter and show us what an SMG 545i can do. The manual did not fare too well in the magazine tests. BMW says that manuals are faster than Steps too.
And your first point of when?............Now.
Good. Did you ever read what I mentioned about the gearing of the Step versus the manual/SMG?
03-30-2006, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' post='262666' date='Mar 30 2006, 11:52 PM
I don't know from where...or if i find such a thing here. Link me to some stuff to know at least what should i look for.
I just searched dragtimes.com and they came up with this:
http://www.dragtimes.com/compare2.php?make...Name=Compare%21
As i said 0.3-0.4 difference. I can't find more infos where i'm certain i saw 535d performing also 14.1 seconds or so, but as soon as i find i'll post.
I just searched dragtimes.com and they came up with this:
http://www.dragtimes.com/compare2.php?make...Name=Compare%21
As i said 0.3-0.4 difference. I can't find more infos where i'm certain i saw 535d performing also 14.1 seconds or so, but as soon as i find i'll post.
03-30-2006, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by pennetta' post='262682' date='Mar 30 2006, 10:17 PM
I want to stop debating the Step vs SMG speed times, but don't you think if the new M5 or M3 would be faster with a Steptronic that they would have one? Do you see Formula/Indy/Nascar or any race car coming equipted with a Slushbox? They would if it would make them faster.
My previous Steptronic cars had great transmissions, very responsive and they even downshifted going into turns. I have an SMG car and its not hard to do a run, you just disable the traction control and floor it, thats the same as doing a run with my previous two Steptronic cars that I have previously had.
My previous Steptronic cars had great transmissions, very responsive and they even downshifted going into turns. I have an SMG car and its not hard to do a run, you just disable the traction control and floor it, thats the same as doing a run with my previous two Steptronic cars that I have previously had.
03-30-2006, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 525dse' post='262714' date='Mar 30 2006, 05:16 PM
Steptronics are as fast if not faster, But I think they fit SMG to the M5 and M3 more for driver involvement than sheer speed. Don't get me wrong SMG's are fast at changing gears, but I think the steptronic's are faster.
Right on bro.Edit: I misread. I think Step's are faster in a straight-line. I doubt they are faster in changing gears. They are faster straight line because of their superior gearing. Also, from what some say. SMG's employing AA are difficult to get good, consistent results from. On this issue, here is what realtyman had to say:
"Here's my take on the SMG.
I'd suspect in a 0-60 sprint and most likely a 1/4 mile run the SMG will be slowest of the 3. On a road course however, the SMG would do better.
Main reason is the launch.
With the SMG you only have two launch options:
1. Mash the gas from a dead stop and hope for the best. (You can't torque-brake like you can in an automatic and you can't determine the optimum launch RPM like in a traditional manual).
or
2. Use Accelleration Assist (AA). Great if you are on a smooth and sticky surface that is consistent and you have good tread. Otherwise you'll roast the right rear tire which does not aid in going anywhere quickly. Once you hook up the remaining shifts are very fast but will by no means make up the lost time sitting-and-spinning.
Every now and then you'll get the right combination and all is well, but I've never been able to get consistent results."