Evenflow545

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzz.

My old man can whip your old man's ass.

Next, let's talk about how the 525 can beat the 530.

535D Sport

Bet he can't because he's faster than yours !!!

znod

Please read all the data. There are several posts full of data. All should be handled to your satisfaction.

I'll restate:

"Has anyone read [all] the data I have posted except Ipp and 700700? How can anyone look at these data and think that the 535d is even almost as fast as the 545i in straight-line performance? Yes, we have a couple of magazine-report ambiguities. But, goodness, look at the preponderance of the evidence."

Here is all the significant data I have posted.

Here is a straight-line performance test of a 535d.

.....................................Both.Steptron ics
..................................535d........Znod--Best 5 Avg.*
0-40 km/h.....................2.0...............1.317
0-60 km/h.....................3.5...............2.545
8-80 km/h.....................5.0...............3.805
0-100 km/h...................7.1...............5.368
0-120 km/h...................9.5...............7.272
0-140 km/h.................12.4...............9.318
0-160 km/h.................16.4..............11.960
1' rollout; adjusted for 25% weather and altitude to 500'. Magazine test procedures and conditions unknown.

Referring to Ipp's post I replied with:

.................................................. ..Data From Your Post
545i.......MT........RT..........MT............535 d.............545i
.........Aug-04...Jun-05...Oct-05
0-X......13.70...13.70......13.80................... .........................X = 102.1, 104, and 102.8, respectively
0-100...13.60.................13.60...........15.1.. ...........14.9
0-90....10.90..................11.00
0-80......8.90.....8.40........9.00
0-70......7.10...................7.20
0-60......5.40.....5.20........5.50
0-50......4.00...................4.10.............4. 5...............4.6
0-40......2.80......2.90.......3.00
0-30......1.60...................1.90
0-20......1.10

0-24.85 (0-40 km/h)
0-37.28 (0-60 km/h)
0-49.71 (0-80 km/h)
0-62.14 (0-100 km/h)
0-74.57 (0-120 km/h)
0-86.99 (0-140 km/h)
0-99.42 (0-160 km/h)

Merv has added another data point. 0-60 in 5.8. Still not as good as the results of the US magazines for the 545i or nearly as good at the times of grogan545 or Znod. What does the preponderance of evidence say?

To me this issue is not about diesels or pertrosl or turbos or not. I am not stuck to any engine or brand. I will go with the fastest generally speaking. I like diesels. I have driven quite a few in Europe. I like any good engine.

znod

Good grief. Please read my last post.

And, here are grogan545's results for his best three passes after 20.01.00. They are adjusted for 25% weather--which I now believe is the better approach. My results above are adjusted to 42% weather. Adjustment for 100% weather makes good results too good if one is above 500' feet IMO. So we are taking the more conservative approach of posting either 42% or 25% weather results. As indicated, I now think that 25% weather is the more accurate of the two. I now have adjusted my results below to reflect 25% weather.

Here are your results for your pass of 3/27/06 with 25% adjustment.

Using 25% adjustment for weather, you get:

For your density altitude: 400 + -.25(400 - (-211.8)) = 247.05

Your adjustment to sea level gives:

Your results:
Density Altitude 247.05 (feet)
Uncorrected ET 13.41 (sec)
Uncorrected MPH 105.5 (mph)
Corrected ET 13.375
Corrected MPH 105.78

Here is your adjustment to 500':

Your results:
E.T. 13.375 (sec)
Trap Speed 105.78 (mph)
Measured DA 0 (feet)
Corrected to 500(feet) DA
Corrected ET 13.446 (sec)
Corrected Trap Speed 105.214 (mph)

Here, my best estimate of your 0 - 60 is: 4.97 - (13.41 - 13.446) = 5.006


Here are the 25% data for your 3/15/06 pass:

Here are your basic data corrected to sea level.

Your results:
Density Altitude 152.25 (feet)
Uncorrected ET 13.35 (sec)
Uncorrected MPH 104.65 (mph)
Corrected ET 13.329
Corrected MPH 104.821

Here they are corrected to 500'.

Your results:
E.T. 13.329 (sec)
Trap Speed 104.821 (mph)
Measured DA 0 (feet)
Corrected to 500(feet) DA
Corrected ET 13.399 (sec)
Corrected Trap Speed 104.261 (mph)

Here, my best estimate of your 0 - 60 is: 4.90 - (13.35 - 13.399) = 4.945


Here are the 25% data for your 3/20/06 pass:

First Run to Sea Level:

Your results:
Density Altitude 33.85 (feet)
Uncorrected ET 13.39 (sec)
Uncorrected MPH 105.5 (mph)
Corrected ET 13.385
Corrected MPH 105.538

First Run to 500'

Your results:
E.T. 13.385 (sec)
Trap Speed 105.538 (mph)
Measured DA 0 (feet)
Corrected to 500(feet) DA
Corrected ET 13.456 (sec)
Corrected Trap Speed 104.974 (mph)

Zero to 60:

First Run: 5 - (13.39 - 13.456) = 5.066


Here are the averages for my best five unadjusted and adjusted passes in MPH (the latter will be ajusted to 25% weather)

Unadjusted for Altitude and Weather--Averages Best Five Overall Tests:

.....................Average
1/4 Speed.......103.378
1/4 Time...........13.634
1/8 Speed.........82.246
1/8 Time............8.876
0 to 100............12.460
0 to 60...............5.161
0 to 160 kph....112.313
0 to 100 kph.......5.550

Adjusted for 25% Weather*** and Altitude to 500'--Averages Best Five Overall Tests:

...........................Best.5
..........................Average
1/4 Speed...........104.596
1/4 Time...............13.472
1/8 Speed**.........82.826
1/8 Time**.............8.764
0 to 100................12.018
0 to 60**................4.987
0 to 160 kph..........11.960
0 to 100 kph...........5.368

**These values are calculated using very well-fitting, ordinary-least-squares regression equations.
***For explanation, see post #376 here.

(Temps--40?s F to 60?s F; Dew Points?about 20 to 30; Pressure?about 30; Altitude?1,600?; DS-mode; DSC/DTC off; Pro RR meter; 1? rollout; 91 octane; Tries for Minimal Wheel Spin)

BetterMakeWay

It says that the 545i would decimate the diesel. It will smoke his ass that even if the petrol was in reverse the diesel still couldn't win. That's what is says. I said FOR THE MILLION TIME and i say it again:
oh wait better i'll copy paste what i said:
And back to the topic: IMO it's hard to say who is faster, the 545i or the 535d. Also IMO as a general rule, if you want, the petrol might be faster under all conditions BUT insignificantly.Also a remaped diesel would spank the petrol but in a way that's not fair. It's devilish enough but not fair. A remaped petrol would put it again into battle keeping the same pattern as stock vs stock.
All this discussion started from bashing the diesel, wich imo is DEADLY wrong since this is after all one heck of a fast car, for it's set-up and economy orientation. Bashing the diesel in any way is not right since it deserves the oposite, the respect, since it got compared to, not long ago, the fastest 5er (except obvsiusly the m5). Vice versa the v8 petrol deserves respect in return because it can keep up with the diesel even though it's na, assuring it's advantage by displacement and set-up. Either way, you can't go wrong. Be it the petrol with it's superb refinement and melody or the lucifer of all diesels, or as i like to call it the diesel m5.

There...hope everyone now reads what i had to say.
PS:
1. "...the results of the US magazines ..." u see magazines are quite variable in test results. Some point out the 545i as being quicker than the 535d in a more underlined way. US magazines tend to show this. I wonder why? Really now...other magazines as posted on this thread 2 of wich i can remember show the diesel closer to the petrol in comparison. Some show the diesel as being faster on a narrow section and the petrol starting to close the gap as the speed increases and then slowly walking away. BUT as i said in my own quote: insignificant for real life performance. You don't get to race every time fromm 0-200(250)km/h. So on this side i would call it...in the middle.
2. "....or nearly as good at the times of grogan545 or Znod..." correct me if i'm wrong but your cars, at least yours Znod, has been tested and recorded in a slighlty tweeked state. You changed the rims with lighter ones (possibly the lightest oem rim 101) you took out probably the extra weight of the spare tire, and bla bla. I can't remember exactly what you did but i remember in your thread that you proudly said that by removing some unsprung weight or so you gained some hp. YOu even made a calculation based on that. So keeping in mind that the test results with the diesel ar only from magazine wich for sure were done without any modifications to the car whatsoever, that's why i said it's kinda unfair.
3rd. Why do you refere to yourself as the third person?

I hope i made myself clear now.

535D Sport

I notice that your 545i is quicker to 100km/h than the 550i, and the 535d is slower to 100km/h by over .5 sec from the figures that BMW quote on there web site ?

znod

I'll ignore most of what you say. But, I don't agree with much of it. I'll let the data speak to anyone interested. And, as best we can determine, my car is very close to the same weight as grogan545's totally pure no sport package/no confort seats/no light wheels and tires/etc. car. We use the same loaded weight in testing (4,150 lbs.) because we think our car's weights are so close to the same. If anyone can come up with a better estimate of the weight of my car, then I will consider it seriously. I weight about 170 lbs. My car has sport package, comfort seats, and the rest of the weighty goodies. If interested, I'll post my weight savings for my wheels/tires, etc.

needforspeed

znod, part of this depends what you mean by 'almost as fast' I don't think these cars are 'chalk and cheese', but personally I never doubted that the petrol car would have the edge in a straight line drag race (although if this was taken all they way to the 155 limit then I wonder if the diesel might have a chance to catch up (I've never driven that fast but I have heard that the 535d doesn't really let up.

On a track though the power distribution would become more important (I think) and depending on the way that track worked in conjunction with the gearing and shiftpoints of each car it would be likely to narrow the gap.

I also feel that in general 'on road' use they would feel comparably quick.


I don't have a pro-diesel position here as such, it just slightly bugs me that so many people dismiss the performance of these cars based on pre-conceptions that diesel cannot compete with petrol.

Although I still love the free, high revving nature of powerful petrol engines, I realise now that (some) diesel cars are pretty serious bits of kit now.

znod

I am talking only about straight-line performance. I don't think that the 535d is close the to the 545i in straight-line performance, and that is what the best hard data we have say. Of course, the hard-data are not definitive, but they are all we have except for what some's emotions' argue. I'll stick with the extant hard data until better hare data turn up. And, as mentioned, I like diesels--even Vin Diesel.

BetterMakeWay

Uh uh...you almost made my cry :'( .
LOOOOOL Kidding...
well put man! Exactly the way i'm thinking but you said it better being a native.